• I think it might be a good idea to put our Sophitz arguments and reasoning here, so that they don't get lost in the comments and if someone is losing hope or something they can look here to be reassured! 

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    • Nice!! Is this for rants or arguments? If it's mainly for Fitzphie's keeping hope, is it okay if I create another thread for arguments? There's something circulating in the Keefoster page about Fitzphie's not having good fact based arguments, and I'd like to see ya'lls responses to that

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    • Soooooooo where are they???

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    • Its mostly for Fitzphie's keeping hope! but feel free to create another thread...

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    • So is someone going to add something to this?  It doesn't really give Fitzphie shipper hope.

      Also why would you NEED hope?  They're practically dating, and I've heard literally everyone with an account say that they're very strong Fitzphie shippers.

      But on the other hand,  I'm actually really excited to see your reasoning, because the arguments that you guys have always get buried in the comments (I think) and I never see them.

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    • Ya Iv'e never really heard a solid argument for Sophitz. Like most of you guys say their cognates they have a specail bond! there meant to be together! but so do Sophie and Keefe even Magnate Leto said so and hes a telepath. Id also like to hear your argumetns over Aldens convo with Keefe and why Sophitz happened so fast. Basically just your honest opinion about Flashback.

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    • Sooo I guess that’s a no then?

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    • I'm sorta confused on what this is supposed to be, right now. I mean, everyone is either wondering why people would need this, or wondering why they haven't heard any solid arguments for Fitzphie. Also, if somebody comments on this, I can give an argument. I have lots and lots of good facts and tidbits of Fitzphie Knowledge. ;)

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    • Well than lets here the facts you

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    • Don't know what it did with the have

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    • My reasoning is that Fitzphie are opposites and opposites attract where as keefe is practically a boy version of Sophie lathered with comedy.. they are just way to similar. Sophie and keefe make amazing close friends but anything more just wouldn’t work.Fitzphie on the other hand balance each other out, they make each other better,they are better together than apart.... if Fitz get angry or upset Sophie is right there to calm him down and if Sophie is feeling anxious or scared or nervous Fitz finds a way to make her feel better. This is my opinion if you don’t like it then that’s ok you can have yours :)

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    • I feel like Sophie and Keefe are more like opposites as he's pretty easy-going while she's pretty serious.

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    • They're both super stubborn...

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    • Also wouldnt it be weird if sophie and fitz were cognates and keefe and sophie were together... If i were keefe (with all the "staring into eachothers eyes" thing) i would feel like sophie still had feelings for fitz. Also a cognate couple would be cute.

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    • Is my opinion. I love keefe but i feel like fitz is ment for sophie.

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    • It feels wrong Sophie and Keefe are ment for each other with Fitz...
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    • I hope Shannon Messenger sees WHAT I WROTE FOR BOOK 8 and those others

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    • wrote: My reasoning is that Fitzphie are opposites and opposites attract where as keefe is practically a boy version of Sophie lathered with comedy.. they are just way to similar. Sophie and keefe make amazing close friends but anything more just wouldn’t work.Fitzphie on the other hand balance each other out, they make each other better,they are better together than apart.... if Fitz get angry or upset Sophie is right there to calm him down and if Sophie is feeling anxious or scared or nervous Fitz finds a way to make her feel better. This is my opinion if you don’t like it then that’s ok you can have yours :)

      >>>> Ok, so you say that Fitz and Sophie are opposites, but I would honestly say they’re more similar to each other than Sophie and Keefe. Fitz is quite a calm person, and so is Sophie, while on the other hand Keefe is a carefree person while she’s a more uptight and serious person. Keefe’s always there for Sophie, and makes her feel better when ever she’s down. I’d say Keefe has done this more times than Fitz has, and honestly, just does it better, as Keefe knows exactly what to say to Sophie and what would cheer her up, because he truly knows her, and they’ve spent more intimate time with each other, sharing their broken fragile parts and secrets that they don’t trust anyone else with. You also said that whenever Fitz is angry Sophie is there to calm him down... but here’s the problem, whenever Fitz gets mad, he takes out his anger on Sophie, he gets really snarky and sharp with everyone, and I think in a long term relationship he’ll just end up snapping at her way too many times and hurting her, and that’s clearly a very unhealthy relationship. We even get proof of this in the Flashback Keefe short story when Alden tells Keefe to be there so that he can calm Fitz down if he gets too angry. And it does happen! Fitz almost starts yelling at Sophie when Keefe stops him in his tracks, and tells him to calm down before he says something he’ll regret. Keefe isn’t always gonna be there to stop Fitz from yelling at Sophie, so how can Alden be okay with his Son treating Sophie like that!? It just doesn’t make sense in the long run. Keefe never snaps at Sophie this way, he truly cares for her and every time they’ve hurt each other they’ve come out of it stronger than ever. I personally ship Sokeefe because they’ve had more development in their relationship, where things with Sophitz, just feel kind of rushed.

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    • I’ve seen so many long paragraphs on several different sites that talk about why Sokeefe is the better ship, and I’ve never once found a solid argument to get me shipping Sophitz, I’d honestly like to see some.

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    • Alright guys this has gone on long enough. We need real arguments. Let's start with the basics, the stuff all you guys have heard before. Yes, I know it's boring, but you can't not include it. So I'll start off with the obvious stuff before moving on to more complex reasons.

      They're cognates in training. They have more trust in each other than anybody else. Whenever Sophie needs a bit of a boost in confidence, she seems to fidget with her rings.

      She's clearly had a crush on him for the entire series. (I'll elaborate on this later). Plus, Fitz has seemed to like her for the past three or four books. With Keefe, it's clear that he really likes her, but she has never said that she likes him, even in narration. Though, her heart does flutter. (Again, more on this).

      They've been through a lot together. They've fought together (against the neverseen), they share many classes, and they are both a part of the Black Swan.

      Now for a little rapid fire. 

      Okay, so in the last seven books, Sophie's crush has been developing on Fitz. And we know that he's liked her for a while. Even though Keefe likes her, I just don't see Sophie dropping all her feelings for Fitz that she's been building up for the ENTIRE SERIES because of one thing. Even matchmaking. Let's say, hypothetically, Fitz maybe hurts her feelings by feeling flustered about the unmatchable thing. Even if that happens, I don't think Sophie's just gonna go, "Oh, time to drop all my feelings for him and never look back because he hurt me once. I guess I've liked Keefe this entire time. DATE ME." Now, if Fitz does get mad at her in Legacy, I think she'll just end up being single.

      Sophie has never said that she likes Keefe, not even in narration. Just gonna bring that up real quick.

      Alright, so Exile....I know...

      Look, Fitz thought he had lost his dad. He hadn't really begun to be close friends with Sophie yet, and blaming her was easy. I DO NOT agree with him in this case, but even if you're the most avid Sokeefe shipper out there, just try to understand. But, see, Sophie stuck with him the entire time. She forgave him, and ever since then, he's been trying to make it up to her. But she doesn't need it. She just likes Fitz for who he is. 

      A little bit more sprinkled in...they hold hands often, Fitz is very protective of her, he gets a little jealous of Keefe, (who wouldn't?), they have confessed crushes, they respect each other.

      Why I think Sokeefe maybe shouldn't work:

      Look, I'm sorry for bringing this up, but it must be talked about...Recklessness. I know, Keefe joined the Neverseen for her. I know he felt really bad about it. I know he likes her. But just THINK about it. He gave them his blood, a KEY plot point, he lost a real cache, he got fakes ones, and lost a little bit of her trust. They gained literally nothing from this, and lost a lot. I KNOW he did it for her, and I KNOW his intentions were good, but it still doesn't stop the fact that they lost so much.

      And the problem is, he doesn't change. He then goes on to fight an ogre king. I know, this one is worse, because he did win and he did it for her. This was pretty good overall. But still, his behavior didn't change. And I think that by doing this, it has proven that he can add a lot of unwanted stress to Sophie's life.

      But, I won't jab on that too much, since this is just a character flaw, which is good for characters. And, obviously, Fitz's anger is a character flaw so, touche. 

      Another key part is just how much they like each other. We all know that Keefe is absolutely head over heels for Sophie. But really...does she feel the same? She has her heart flutter when he is flirting (I don't know how to describe it) with her. She loves his homeade gifts (more on that), but she doesn't seem to LOVE him.

      And I know that's a strong word, but eh. I just can't see her suddenly saying "Keefe, I love you", but I CAN see her saying, "Fitz, I love you". She just doesn't have a romantic connection with Keefe. 

      He's a goofy friend, maybe crush, and somebody who she wants to heal and love, BUT...not in that kind of way. She loves him like a best friend. 

      I don't know if anybody reading this has a really great friend, but I'm sure if you spent years with them and cared for them like a sibling, you could say that you loved them. That's how I see Sophie and Keefe.

      As the books went on, I think Shannon slowly changed the direction it was going in. It used to be, Sophie is best friends with Dex, Keefe, Biana, and Fitz, and she spends a lot of time with Keefe doing secret mission type stuff. Now, it's become, her friend group expands, we get more discoveries, the plot focuses more (way too much) on Keefe's legacy and development, and Sophie begins to spend more time with Fitz. That's why I think Fitzphie might work out.

      I honestly have a little bit more to go on, but I want to mention only one more thing. 

      Keefe's gifts. I have no problem with them. I think they're really sweet, and they really represent Keefe. But so do Fitz's.

      I've seen a lot of arguments based off of, "Fitz's gifts are so much more materialistic, and Keefe's will leave more of an impact".

      Just think about it. We know Keefe's hobbies, interests, life, etc. We know that he enjoys painting and is very artsy, so it makes sense that his gifts will center around that. That's part of him as a character. 

      As for Fitz...we know he's wealthy. We know he cares about Sophie. So, it makes sense for him to BUY her something. Part of his character is being rather wealthy. I know pretty much all elves are, but since we don't get much development for Fitz, I think this makes sense for him. 

      And, they DO leave an impact. Sophie's favorite color is teal. She likes Fitz. It makes sense that he would buy her things like cognate rings, you know, since they're COGNATES. And he would buy her a teal heart locket, which will always remind her of Fitz. Plus, he DID spend an entire day baking for her, stepping out of his comfort zone and spending time on HER. I'm just trying to say that Fitz's gifts make sense, because it bugs me that people don't see that in him.

      Sorry if this was long.

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    • And also, about the whole "Alden talks to Keefe before the tribunal" thing. I know, it was dumb. I know a lot of Sokeefers and even Sophitzers got mad. But just think about. 

      He cares about his son. Even if it's not the best way to go about it, he's still just trying to make his son happy and save Keefe from what he went through. Obviously, he thinks that Sophie and Fitz are better for each other, and he's trying to "let them be happy" with each other, and he's trying to save Keefe from being hurt. 

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    • ^ I actually really agree with this.  Also, can I just argue a little bit for Fitz?

      I don't think he's perfect, and I really don't know why everybody seems to think that.

      In a world of elves who are all good looking, wealthy, and smart, I think we can cross off some of Fitz's traits. What I mean is, it's all relative. In our world, Fitz would be perfect. But in the Elven world, EVERYBODY is attractive, and wealthy, and intelligent, so how is Fitz any more so?

      So that leaves us with his internal traits and actions.

      He's a flawed character, but also a good character. He isn't the most selfless, but he's selfless enough to give up anything for people he loves, but also be smart about it. 

      He also get angry easily. Rightfully so, but he still takes it out on others, and is  s l o w l y  working towards being...not...that...

      Basically, I'm just saying that you shouldn't hate on Fitz for being perfect, because he is NOT.

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    • Yeah and everyone likes to bring up exile and stuff when FITZ gets angry at Sophie but he gets angry at EVERYONE and also Keefe stole the cache from Sophie that’s right STOLE, I’m not saying FITZ is better than him or vise versa but they both have character flaws and no one likes to mention the time Keefe yelled at Sophie in neverseen and Ik it’s bc she kept something from him but Keefe stole Kenric cache from Sophie for her and she forgave him and she kept a secret for him and he never said that he forgave her or that he was sry for yelling at her meanwhile FITZ tries everything he can to make Sophie happy and try to earn her forgiveness back.( this is just how I think I’m not trying to ship bash or anything)

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    • Yeah, I know right? Why do so many people hate on Fitz?

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    • YEAH it’s easy to look at FITZ and say “oh I hate him bc he yelled at sophie” and I get it but uuummm Keefe took alvar, their leaping crystal, AND kenrics cache like don’t just hate on FITZ bc of a few mistakes they ALL make mistakes like Keefe bc of his reckless behavior and how he doesn’t listen to ANYONE even Sophie sometimes and makes decisions that usually end up doing more bad then good

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      Hey there fellow Keeper fans!!

      First off, if you are easily offended, or not willing to hear me out, your journey ends here. But if you are neither of these things, or simply here to see me get torn to shreds by the angry mob of Fitzphie shippers that are currently reading this post, then welcome! And rest assured you'll have more than enough to think about after this extremely opinionated and biased post, but hey! Take a trip into my mind during the sleepless nights I use to develop these arguments, and rest assured, I know nothing more than any of you all in this, or any regard as it relates to Keeper. 

      First, the entire relationship between Sophie and Fitz is not only toxic but borderline abusive. When literally anything bad happens in the series, Fitz resorts to anger, and for the most part, screaming. 

      Would it absolutely kill Fitz to be a little more supportive during this emotionally traumatizing time for not only Sophie (his alleged girlfriend) but also for Keefe (his alleged best friend). With all this said, can we take into consideration Fitz's overall negative attitude towards the world in general, and the problems that they face daily. Maybe I'd understand Fitz if he could relate a little bit more to their dilemmas. Let's think about it: Fitz lives with both parents, both of which are not completely psycho, which single handedly trumps both Sophie, Keefe, Stina, Marella, Wylie, and countless others. I'll give you a minute to reread that. Done? Alright. You may be thinking about Alvar here, and I'll give you that one. The whole situation surrounding his older brother, is more than sketchy, but he has not only Biana, but an otherwise intact family to help him through this issue. Additionally, he has not only disowned Alvar, but there has been little to no action on that front lately. Needless to say, Biana (who is in the same position) has somehow managed to escape this "devastating" discovery without become bitter and cynical. Before Fitz screwed it up with Sophie over an issue that was not only trivial but completely unnecessary, he could have had a steady girlfriend as well. So before you go around all sad for the fandom's golden boy, I'll give you a minute to consider how good he has it compared to any number of his friends.Not to mention, do we have any other characters that are unavoidably connected to the Neverseen? Oh, yes, Keefe Sencen, who’s mother is the leader of the Neverseen, and he is able to deal with this tragedy with no yelling. Sure, sulking, but less taking out his anger on his beloved friends.  

      Secondly, in a land of perfect endings and an infinite lifespan, who gets married at 15? It is completely irrational to assume that girls will have some kind of FAIRY TALE ENDING with their first crush, and that is precisely the idea Shannon will be feeding to young girls all around the world, if she is to choose the Sofitz endgame trope. 

      From book one, SoFitz has been practically handed to us on a silver platter, dripping with the affections of twelve-year-old Sophie, who is transfixed with his teal eyes, and quite frankly, nothing else. Go ahead and flip through your copies of Keeper and find where Sophie admires anything more than his lovely eyes. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's always the eyes. For every time Sophie compliments about the real Fitz beyond his petty appearance, there's three dreamy comments describing the depth and hue of those God-forsaken eyes.

      And let's not forget about the fact Fitz is completely and utterly possessive of Sophie. Let's get real here, within maybe two weeks (and no dates) of their so called "relationship," Fitz has jumped head first into calling Sophie his girlfriend, not to mention, they've never even kissed. Come on Shannon, we know you've got it in you. Additionally, as seen multiple times throughout Legacy, Sophie is uncomfortable when associating with those of the other gender, off the basis that she would have to explain herself to Fitz, as if it's completely unreasonable to have guy friends after you start dating. Not only this, but she's generally afraid to confide in Fitz because she's scared of how he'll react. Romantic? I think not. Your significant other should be someone who you rely on, not someone who makes you feel like you have to hide from them. While these worries torment her, she's forced to turn to our favorite trouble-making comedian. You know him, you love him, Keefe! And while she's worrying about whether it's socially acceptable to hug one of your guy friends after you're dating, Keefe is working towards the larger goal here, discovering Sophie’s parents, and ultimately her future happiness. 

      Not only this, but at the end of the day, Sophie and Fitz have no chemistry! Now whether you just groaned, yelled at me, or gave up, I'll urge you to keep reading. In your mind, I'm asking you to picture one quality SoFitz moment that makes you like the ship, or support their happy life crusade. I'll give you a minute to picture this in your mind. Got it? Okay. Now if your moment includes any of the following cliches, think of another. Teal eye descriptions? That's a no-go. Cheesy pickup lines? Nope. Anything that involves Fitz complaining? Think again. Cognate moment? No siree. Declarations of love at first sight? Hmmmm... Alright, let's see where that leaves us. Any final moments? Well, maybe a few, but enough to build a relationship that could last for possibly thousands of years, certainly not. 

      So far I’d say I’ve done a pretty decent job explaining why Sophie shouldn’t tie the knot with Fitz, but I still haven’t explained the thought behind my unmatched love for team Foster-Keefe, so I’ll cut to the chase.

      Sophie chose Keefe. From the beginning, Sophie has been forced to interact with Fitz due to the fact that he was the first elf she met, so moving into a dating relationship with him seemed only natural. On the other hand, Sophie chose to get to know Keefe. Any interaction beyond their initial meeting, and maybe a few glances here and there are purely of Sophie’s own choosing, and the same vice versa. 

      Not only that, but additionally every moment between Sophie and Keefe has been completely natural and totally organic, as opposed to Fitz and Sophie, whose private interactions are forced and strained, which definitely isn’t something we should be looking for in a lasting relationship. 

      Going way back to my personal favorite book of this series, Neverseen, the first book of what I like to call the  second trilogy, let’s get down to the heart of the matter- quite literally. In Neverseen Keefe mentions the fact that Lord Cassius is a writer or in his words, a “tortureer of innocent readers.” Along these lines we hear about one of his books The Heart of the Matter, which explains a simply theory that I personally adore, and attribute to the whole situation surrounding the ships in general. This theory basically explains the difference between the feelings in your head and the ones in your heart. Its describes the fact that the feelings of the head can be deceiving and not always as genuine as the ones found in the heart. In Lodestar (further explained in Nightfall) Sophie enhances Keefe and he later clarified that the feelings he was able to access were of her heart beyond those of the head, and he profusely refuses to share with her what he finds there leading me to believe that she loves Fitz with her head and Keefe with her heart. 

      With all this said, I think it’s obvious who really deserves the affections of our lovable protagonist, Sophie Foster. While Fitz is there poisoning our girl, just remember there's always a funny and relatable Keefe there for her, ready to swoop in whenever she comes to her senses and realizes she’s been with the wrong guy all along. Oh come on, don’t look at me like that! You know I speak the truth, otherwise you wouldn't still be reading. So whether you’re a die hard SoFitz shipper, or you’re just here for a laugh, consider these things and keep in mind what’s really best for our moonlark. 

      May the odds be ever in your ships favor,

      Claudia E.

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