FANDOM


  • We filled the old one up, and I was asked to make a new one, so... here it is!

      Loading editor
    • Hallo! I wasn't on the other thread but am excited about this one. I am a Christian too, so it is cool to be able to talk with other Christians :)

        Loading editor
    • So there was a debate a while ago on the Christian Keeper wiki about pro-life vs pro-choice. I wasn't able to participate cause I was busy, but I was wondering what all of your thoughts are on the issue. Let the dabate begin, I guess?

        Loading editor
    • My thoughts on this are VERY mixed. My religion says I should choose pro-life. But... what if some 12-year-old gets raped or in a very bad situation? What's she supposed to do? Sacrifice herself for a kid that she never asked for and certainly can't handle? Idk. I think abortions are not the best options, but also a young mom dying is certainly not the best option either. Now if you are and older woman and you accidentally get pregnant, I don't think you should get an abortion just because you don't want the kid. I say, if you can support/handle it, don't abort it. People say "it's my body, I should make the choice." And while I agree you should have a choice, it's not ONLY your body in question. Just because a baby isn't fully developed doesn't mean it isn't a baby. But if you're younger than 16... well, I just don't know. What I do know is that they have special hospitals for young moms and moms who want to have an abortion, where they give them abortion therapy and they care for younger girls who might not be able to handle the baby. My parents have donated to one of these, they're great places. 

      So all in all, I'd say, I won't be getting an abortion in the future, and if you can handle it you shouldn't either, but it isn't the absolute worst choice.

        Loading editor
    • Hey! I'm not Christian but I do like debating about abortion, so here's my view:

      Pro-choice gives people a choice. They can choose not to have an abortion and be pro-life for themselves, but that shouldn't affect a choice that others need to make. If a kid is abused and ends up pregnant and raising a baby would destroy their life, they should be able to end the pregnancy. Or if a woman ends up pregnant but having a baby could endanger her life in any way, she should do what's best for her health. No matter what. imagining an unborn baby dying is really painful, but if letting the baby live ruins the life of the mother, is keeping the baby alive really "pro-life"?

        Loading editor
    • Hi, I am a Christian and my thoughts are very mixed too. On one hand, the baby is alive and doesn't deserve to die because of their mother's situation. On the other hand, I know that there are mothers who might die if they go through with the birth. I will say that even if it may not be the wisest choice for the mom to keep the baby, there is adoption and foster, providing a easy for the baby and mother to live their best lives.

        Loading editor
    • I am Pro-life all the way. Killing a baby because the mother doesn't want it is murder, even if some people like to sugarcoat it. The sixth commandment clearly states "Thou shalt not murder," and ending a human baby's life is nothing short of that.

      I am, however, not saying that the mother must keep the baby. Though I do believe that adoption is a better option for the child than foster care, because the latter may result in a really harsh childhood for them.

      These are my opinions on the matter.

        Loading editor
    • "It's my body I can do what I want." I hate this. It's so very selfish! As a christian (And someone with common sense) I believe that every single baby needs a chance. Every baby is special to God. What would the baby choose? LIFE! Abortion is selfish!

        Loading editor
    • Also, our bodies belong to God. ;)

        Loading editor
    • I guess I have mixed opinions on this. For younger kids/teens then that's pretty hard considering it would be dangerous for them. But there is adoption. I think every life should be valued including one's that haven't been born. But for people over the age of 16 or 17 and just don't want the baby then I think it's an awful thing to kill them. If their situation is bad and it will be for the baby then there's people out there willing to adopt or foster them! And then there's the fact that giving birth could kill them. But if they're older and have lived life, wouldn't you want your child to live? There's many sides to this but overall I think abortion is not the right way to go in most cases.

        Loading editor
    • I agree

        Loading editor
    • I am not Christain, but I would like to share my opinon. I am personally pro-choice. My aunt was pregnant, and she had to get an abortion because the baby wasn't developing properly, and it would die anyway.

      Personally, I think that pregnancy isn't easy to go through, and you should always have a choice. I understand why you guys are pro-life. And my opinons will obvouisly be a bit diffrent because I don't share your guys's religion.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • MagicDaydreamer wrote:
      Hey! I'm not Christian but I do like debating about abortion, so here's my view:

      Pro-choice gives people a choice. They can choose not to have an abortion and be pro-life for themselves, but that shouldn't affect a choice that others need to make. If a kid is abused and ends up pregnant and raising a baby would destroy their life, they should be able to end the pregnancy. Or if a woman ends up pregnant but having a baby could endanger her life in any way, she should do what's best for her health. No matter what. imagining an unborn baby dying is really painful, but if letting the baby live ruins the life of the mother, is keeping the baby alive really "pro-life"?

      It's pro-life if no one dies. It doesn't have to ruin her life, she could do foster or adoption programs, etc.

        Loading editor
    • RaeWood739 wrote:
      Hi, I am a Christian and my thoughts are very mixed too. On one hand, the baby is alive and doesn't deserve to die because of their mother's situation. On the other hand, I know that there are mothers who might die if they go through with the birth. I will say that even if it may not be the wisest choice for the mom to keep the baby, there is adoption and foster, providing a easy for the baby and mother to live their best lives.

      I agree.

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      I am not Christain, but I would like to share my opinon. I am personally pro-choice. My aunt was pregnant, and she had to get an abortion because the baby wasn't developing properly, and it would die anyway.

      Personally, I think that pregnancy isn't easy to go through, and you should always have a choice. I understand why you guys are pro-life. And my opinons will obvouisly be a bit diffrent because I don't share your guys's religion.

      -Chloe

      I didn't know people got abortions for that reason, and I agree that that is a valid reason to get one.

      But if a woman who has a job (or a husband with a job) and who is not in school gets accidentally pregnant and just doesn't want the baby, well... that's no reason for murder. Be more careful about not getting pregnant, and give the kid up for adoption. 

        Loading editor
    • TeamKeefe12 wrote:
      "It's my body I can do what I want." I hate this. It's so very selfish! As a christian (And someone with common sense) I believe that every single baby needs a chance. Every baby is special to God. What would the baby choose? LIFE!

      Abortion is selfish!


      Some abortions are the opposite of selfish - many women end pregnancies after finding out the baby has a birth defect that would cause it to die soon after it was born and suffer for the small amount of time it was alive. No good parent would want their child to live in pain. 

      (and this may be offensive, but please don't say that the only people who have "common sense" are people who are against abortion, it's not very polite)



      -Cress

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      I am not Christain, but I would like to share my opinon. I am personally pro-choice. My aunt was pregnant, and she had to get an abortion because the baby wasn't developing properly, and it would die anyway.

      Personally, I think that pregnancy isn't easy to go through, and you should always have a choice. I understand why you guys are pro-life. And my opinons will obvouisly be a bit diffrent because I don't share your guys's religion.

      -Chloe

      I didn't know people got abortions for that reason, and I agree that that is a valid reason to get one.

      But if a woman who has a job (or a husband with a job) and who is not in school gets accidentally pregnant and just doesn't want the baby, well... that's no reason for murder. Be more careful about not getting pregnant, and give the kid up for adoption. 

      victims of non-consensual relationships can't "be more careful about not getting pregnant", though, if their pregnancies come from assault. ​​

        Loading editor
    • TeamKeefe12 wrote:
      Also, our bodies belong to God. ;)

      (I don't like the thought of peoples' bodies being owned by someone else...)

        Loading editor
    • If having a baby is dangerous to the mother's health, she should be able to get an abortion no matter what. In other situations, I understand your guys' perspective (imagining a baby dying is really, really sad), but I do think there should always be a choice. 

      A pregnant woman is a person, not just a container for a baby. And she wants what's best for both her and the baby. She doesn't want the baby to grow up in a terrible situation. She doesn't want to die having a baby. She doesn't want other people to dictate whether or not she reproduces. Having a baby affects her mental health, too, and how those in her environment could treat her, whether or not she'd have time to earn a living while caring for the baby, etc. And if having a baby makes her life infinitely more difficult and she still wants the baby (and keeps it), the baby could grown up in a bad living situation.

        Loading editor
    • I get there are multiple reasons but it's your child. It deserves to live even if it costs your life. Not everyone feels that way but I know some pope do. But there's so many situations that's it's hard to debate

        Loading editor
    • 108.12.254.38 wrote:
      Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      I am not Christain, but I would like to share my opinon. I am personally pro-choice. My aunt was pregnant, and she had to get an abortion because the baby wasn't developing properly, and it would die anyway.

      Personally, I think that pregnancy isn't easy to go through, and you should always have a choice. I understand why you guys are pro-life. And my opinons will obvouisly be a bit diffrent because I don't share your guys's religion.

      -Chloe

      I didn't know people got abortions for that reason, and I agree that that is a valid reason to get one.

      But if a woman who has a job (or a husband with a job) and who is not in school gets accidentally pregnant and just doesn't want the baby, well... that's no reason for murder. Be more careful about not getting pregnant, and give the kid up for adoption. 

      victims of non-consensual relationships can't "be more careful about not getting pregnant", though, if their pregnancies come from assault.

      ​​

      I know, I didn't mean to imply that. If you are assaulted and forced into it, it is not your fault.

        Loading editor
    • Hmm, this is a super politically controvertial topic, and I'd love to throw my beliefs out there.

      Let's take politics away, though. So here's the thing: at first, I was super pro-life. There are many alternatives to abortions (many of which have been stated here), which is much better than, well, basically murdering an innocent life. When it comes to childbirth, the child isn't a "choice", it's a living, breathing thing that should be given a chance, whatever the circumstances may be.

      I'm going to be a bit double-sided now. If the reason for abortion is because the mother didn't want the child anymore, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If it was consensual, erm, things, the mother has absolutely no right in declaring that they don't want the child anymore. Period.

      Now let's look at this another way. If the mother was abused into the thing, now it's a different story. Here's where my opinion comes into the way. If the mother's 18 years old or over, I believe that there should not be an abortion. 18 is probably the median age of full body (body, not brain) development, for which a child would most likely be able to survive. Yes, I know, the mother did not consent to having the child, but would sacrificing it really be the best choice if it is most likely going to survive?

      But what if the mother is, say, 14? Or 13? Or 12? Let me just say, if, and let's all really hope not, anything were to happen to any of you, I'm sure that you would get abortions. I would absolutely. It's not something that I (or you, I presume) would have a choice over, seeing as how conflicting that situation would to someone of such a young age. Yes, 15/16/17 is still super young for childbirth, and if they were to get an abortion, I would have absolutely no problem with that. 

      Bottom line, I'm super mixed. If the mother is younger than 18, I'm pro-choice. If she is older, I'm pro-life. I'm now realizing I wrote a super long rant, and I apologize.

        Loading editor
    • Let me just say that I don't entirely share your religion, so my belief system might be a bit different. I'm not biasing this on religion, by the way, just on personal opinions.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      Hmm, this is a super politically controvertial topic, and I'd love to throw my beliefs out there.

      Let's take politics away, though. So here's the thing: at first, I was super pro-life. There are many alternatives to abortions (many of which have been stated here), which is much better than, well, basically murdering an innocent life. When it comes to childbirth, the child isn't a "choice", it's a living, breathing thing that should be given a chance, whatever the circumstances may be.

      I'm going to be a bit double-sided now. If the reason for abortion is because the mother didn't want the child anymore, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If it was consensual, erm, things, the mother has absolutely no right in declaring that they don't want the child anymore. Period.

      Now let's look at this another way. If the mother was abused into the thing, now it's a different story. Here's where my opinion comes into the way. If the mother's 18 years old or over, I believe that there should not be an abortion. 18 is probably the median age of full body (body, not brain) development, for which a child would most likely be able to survive. Yes, I know, the mother did not consent to having the child, but would sacrificing it really be the best choice if it is most likely going to survive?

      But what if the mother is, say, 14? Or 13? Or 12? Let me just say, if, and let's all really hope not, anything were to happen to any of you, I'm sure that you would get abortions. I would absolutely. It's not something that I (or you, I presume) would have a choice over, seeing as how conflicting that situation would to someone of such a young age. Yes, 15/16/17 is still super young for childbirth, and if they were to get an abortion, I would have absolutely no problem with that. 

      Bottom line, I'm super mixed. If the mother is younger than 18, I'm pro-choice. If she is older, I'm pro-life. I'm now realizing I wrote a super long rant, and I apologize.

      I agree. It's like, I'm not one or the other. It depends on the woman's age and the, um, circumstances.

        Loading editor
    • Whoa you read that fast XD

        Loading editor
    • yep lol

        Loading editor
    • Hey guys, I'm a Christian, and I think It's super cool that there's a debate thread on here!

      My thoughts on abortion: 



      If the pregnancy was consetual, yet out of wedlock

      I get it. It should be the "Woman's choice" right? "My body, my choice." Yes, your body may be affected by a prgnancy, but the child inside isn't "your body".  It's a whole different, living, breathing organism that is so much more than a just a clump of cells. If you arent married, yet you're old enough to raise the child, and not be hurt by the pregnancy, than you have no excuse, other than your laziness. And for those feminists, who insist that abortions "empower" women, think about this: Doesn't the aborion benefit the man, instead of the woman? If you choose not to have the child, then the man gets off without any responsability, and can keep benefiting from the night time "events" of your relationship, consequence free. How is that fair?

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      If it was consentual, and you are married:

      Why. Would. You. Do. That? The only thing that maight make the woman concider an abortion (or at least the only reason I can think of) is that they simply don't want the hassle of having a kid. If so: shame on you. You would rather kill an innocent baby than go through a little discomfort? An argument might be made that the family is struggling financially, and wouldn't be able to sufficiently support the child.  This doesn't make sense to me, because the government has systems that support the baby through it's childhood, and again, adoption is always an option.

      If the baby isn't going to make it anyway, or is disabled to the point where it would be more painful to be alive:

      This is the one time that I believe abortion is acceptable. It's not only acceptable, but supportable, because it's for the better of the child. 

      On the topic of young pregnancies:

      This is a valid point, but I believe that it's over stated a lot. When a girl gets periods, that is a sign that their bodies are capable of giving birth. This happens around 12, 13 years old. However, I don't think that age has anything to do with it, as much as the development of the girl's body. A 12 year old could be below the average weight/hieght, and still have started having periods. In that case, an abortion would only be acceptable if it was the only way for the girl to live. 

      All together:

      In most cases, abortions are unneeded, if not selfish. In some places in the U.S., abotions are allowed up till one day before delivery. That means a fully developed baby, being slaughtered at the mother's selfish actions. I just can't wrap my head around that.  When I researched abortion, to see how it was done, I found that tmost of the ways the abortions were performed were inhumane and painful for the child. This nearly convinced me to be pro-life. But what really did it was the fact that having an abortion for any reason other than 'it would put the child out of it's misery' is weakness and laziness in it's purest form. Who would murder a child just to keep thing simple for themselves? 



      Okay so I'm done with my rant. I want so say that i did read all of the posts above, and apreciate the fact that everyone here is willing to share their opinions without it getting heated. If you have any refuting arguments to any of my points I'd love to hear them! 

        Loading editor
    • Here's where I would disagree with you. A 12 year old giving successful birth is about as likely as the raper of that girl being disciplined rightly for his actions (if you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic). It's not "selfish" if the girl didn't ask for that situation. I've heard stories of nine year olds getting their periods; would you think an abortion is inacceptable in that case? Would their bodies be capable of giving birth? Not trying to be rude in any way or form, just curious. I'm so sorry if this sounds a bid offensive!

      Going back to the 12-year-old, even if she did manage to survive, how would a kid be able to raise a kid? An abortion would be absolutely necessary in that situation. Neither the 12-year-old nor the newborn would be able to do any good in that situation. The newborn would be, and this may sound like I'm being harsh, but that's not my intention, deformed (I couldn't think of a better way to say it, sorry), and the 'mother' in even worse condition. When I was 12, I thought that three push ups were painful. Labor would just be torture for any child of that age.

      I'd be happy to hear your refute as well!

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
      Hey guys, I'm a Christian, and I think It's super cool that there's a debate thread on here!

      My thoughts on abortion: 



      If the pregnancy was consetual, yet out of wedlock

      I get it. It should be the "Woman's choice" right? "My body, my choice." Yes, your body may be affected by a prgnancy, but the child inside isn't "your body".  It's a whole different, living, breathing organism that is so much more than a just a clump of cells. If you arent married, yet you're old enough to raise the child, and not be hurt by the pregnancy, than you have no excuse, other than your laziness. And for those feminists, who insist that abortions "empower" women, think about this: Doesn't the aborion benefit the man, instead of the woman? If you choose not to have the child, then the man gets off without any responsability, and can keep benefiting from the night time "events" of your relationship, consequence free. How is that fair?

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      If it was consentual, and you are married:

      Why. Would. You. Do. That? The only thing that maight make the woman concider an abortion (or at least the only reason I can think of) is that they simply don't want the hassle of having a kid. If so: shame on you. You would rather kill an innocent baby than go through a little discomfort? An argument might be made that the family is struggling financially, and wouldn't be able to sufficiently support the child.  This doesn't make sense to me, because the government has systems that support the baby through it's childhood, and again, adoption is always an option.

      If the baby isn't going to make it anyway, or is disabled to the point where it would be more painful to be alive:

      This is the one time that I believe abortion is acceptable. It's not only acceptable, but supportable, because it's for the better of the child. 

      On the topic of young pregnancies:

      This is a valid point, but I believe that it's over stated a lot. When a girl gets periods, that is a sign that their bodies are capable of giving birth. This happens around 12, 13 years old. However, I don't think that age has anything to do with it, as much as the development of the girl's body. A 12 year old could be below the average weight/hieght, and still have started having periods. In that case, an abortion would only be acceptable if it was the only way for the girl to live. 

      All together:

      In most cases, abortions are unneeded, if not selfish. In some places in the U.S., abotions are allowed up till one day before delivery. That means a fully developed baby, being slaughtered at the mother's selfish actions. I just can't wrap my head around that.  When I researched abortion, to see how it was done, I found that tmost of the ways the abortions were performed were inhumane and painful for the child. This nearly convinced me to be pro-life. But what really did it was the fact that having an abortion for any reason other than 'it would put the child out of it's misery' is weakness and laziness in it's purest form. Who would murder a child just to keep thing simple for themselves? 



      Okay so I'm done with my rant. I want so say that i did read all of the posts above, and apreciate the fact that everyone here is willing to share their opinions without it getting heated. If you have any refuting arguments to any of my points I'd love to hear them! 

      I pretty much agree-- the only acceptable abortion in my opinion is when the baby would die anyway or if it was a girl under 16 getting raped. 

      I just, everytime I think about some married lady, purposefully not caring and not being careful with her husband and accidentally getting pregnant then punishing the kid-- it disgusts me. That is so selfish. Be careful and don't blame it on anyone else but your carelessness.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      Here's where I would disagree with you. A 12 year old giving successful birth is about as likely as the raper of that girl being disciplined rightly for his actions (if you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic). It's not "selfish" if the girl didn't ask for that situation. I've heard stories of nine year olds getting their periods; would you think an abortion is inacceptable in that case? Would their bodies be capable of giving birth? Not trying to be rude in any way or form, just curious. I'm so sorry if this sounds a bid offensive!

      Going back to the 12-year-old, even if she did manage to survive, how would a kid be able to raise a kid? An abortion would be absolutely necessary in that situation. Neither the 12-year-old nor the newborn would be able to do any good in that situation. The newborn would be, and this may sound like I'm being harsh, but that's not my intention, deformed (I couldn't think of a better way to say it, sorry), and the 'mother' in even worse condition. When I was 12, I thought that three push ups were painful. Labor would just be torture for any child of that age.

      I'd be happy to hear your refute as well!

      I agree. Kids can get raped (and impregnated) by their classmates, teachers, or even dads, and I assure you they don't ask for that situation. And (though this is rare) some girls get their periods at 8, and when you're 8, you're definitely not ready to raise a kid (and not grown enough to safely carry a baby!)! A 15-year-old isn't ready to raise a kid, either. For people who didn't choose to be in their situations, and for any kid, abortion is something some young moms need.

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
      Hey guys, I'm a Christian, and I think It's super cool that there's a debate thread on here!

      My thoughts on abortion: 



      If the pregnancy was consetual, yet out of wedlock

      I get it. It should be the "Woman's choice" right? "My body, my choice." Yes, your body may be affected by a prgnancy, but the child inside isn't "your body".  It's a whole different, living, breathing organism that is so much more than a just a clump of cells. If you arent married, yet you're old enough to raise the child, and not be hurt by the pregnancy, than you have no excuse, other than your laziness. And for those feminists, who insist that abortions "empower" women, think about this: Doesn't the aborion benefit the man, instead of the woman? If you choose not to have the child, then the man gets off without any responsability, and can keep benefiting from the night time "events" of your relationship, consequence free. How is that fair?

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      If it was consentual, and you are married:

      Why. Would. You. Do. That? The only thing that maight make the woman concider an abortion (or at least the only reason I can think of) is that they simply don't want the hassle of having a kid. If so: shame on you. You would rather kill an innocent baby than go through a little discomfort? An argument might be made that the family is struggling financially, and wouldn't be able to sufficiently support the child.  This doesn't make sense to me, because the government has systems that support the baby through it's childhood, and again, adoption is always an option.

      If the baby isn't going to make it anyway, or is disabled to the point where it would be more painful to be alive:

      This is the one time that I believe abortion is acceptable. It's not only acceptable, but supportable, because it's for the better of the child. 

      On the topic of young pregnancies:

      This is a valid point, but I believe that it's over stated a lot. When a girl gets periods, that is a sign that their bodies are capable of giving birth. This happens around 12, 13 years old. However, I don't think that age has anything to do with it, as much as the development of the girl's body. A 12 year old could be below the average weight/hieght, and still have started having periods. In that case, an abortion would only be acceptable if it was the only way for the girl to live. 

      All together:

      In most cases, abortions are unneeded, if not selfish. In some places in the U.S., abotions are allowed up till one day before delivery. That means a fully developed baby, being slaughtered at the mother's selfish actions. I just can't wrap my head around that.  When I researched abortion, to see how it was done, I found that tmost of the ways the abortions were performed were inhumane and painful for the child. This nearly convinced me to be pro-life. But what really did it was the fact that having an abortion for any reason other than 'it would put the child out of it's misery' is weakness and laziness in it's purest form. Who would murder a child just to keep thing simple for themselves? 



      Okay so I'm done with my rant. I want so say that i did read all of the posts above, and apreciate the fact that everyone here is willing to share their opinions without it getting heated. If you have any refuting arguments to any of my points I'd love to hear them! 

      An abortion a day before delivery is definitely cruel and far too late. Depending on the circumstance, 3-4 months into the pregnancy is far more reasonable.

      If the kid was concieved just because the couple forgot to use protection and are married, adults, gave consent, and just don't want a kid, then they shouldn't just kill the baby because they don't want it - they could put it up for adoption.

      But if the pregnancy's a danger to either the mother or the baby's health, and abortion would ease the suffering of both of them, then it's a wise choice.

      Overall, I believe abortion is not selfish in many circumstances, unless it's a case where a mother aborts at 8 months pregnant or gets rid of the baby just because she suddenly decides she doesn't want to raise a kid.




      -cress

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
       

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      Personally, I really don't agree. Imagine if you were 12, and you got sexauly assulted. It would affect your mental health, your grades, and your socail life. Also, pregnacy is not fun. It's growing a person inside of you for nine 'months​​​​​​​. And if you were raped, it'd be worse. Most young girls are already self concouis enough without being pregnant at age 12. You'd be reminded of what someone did to you, without your consent, every time you looked in the mirror.

      I understand why people would feel that abortion is wrong, I just think having to be pregnant that young, and unwllingly, is wrong, especailly.

      I will personally always be pro-choice, but I understand were you're coming from.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • sorry, ignore the bold. I have no idea why it did that.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
       

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      Personally, I really don't agree. Imagine if you were 12, and you got sexauly assulted. It would affect your mental health, your grades, and your socail life. Also, pregnacy is not fun. It's growing a person inside of you for nine 'months​​​​​​​. And if you were raped, it'd be worse. Most young girls are already self concouis enough without being pregnant at age 12. You'd be reminded of what someone did to you, without your consent, every time you looked in the mirror.

      I understand why people would feel that abortion is wrong, I just think having to be pregnant that young, and unwllingly, is wrong, especailly.

      I will personally always be pro-choice, but I understand were you're coming from.

      -Chloe

      While it's true that being pregnant at that age might be mentally challenging, it' actually MORE challenging mentally to have an abortion. Especially for a young girl. Think about it. Knowing that you gave consent to kill something- especially a baby-  will live with you forever.  In fact, polls and statistics given by doctors and therapists worldwide show that nine out of ten women who have had an abortion suffer from intense emotional trauma and regret. 

        Loading editor
    • I think that if you are raped and get pregnant at younger than about 15 or 16, the best option is to abort it. I hate the idea, but an innocent girl might die, be seriously hurt, or just have her life ruined because some terrible creep attacked her. Think about it. An twelve year old gets raped and gets pregnant. She can't go out in public anymore. Soccer? Nope. Ballet? Uh-uh. Even school? Probably not, her mom will probably take her out of school and homeschool her. But it's more than that. She will probably already be getting therapy because of the trauma from getting raped. But what if this scares her about getting pregnant ever again? What if every male walking by scares her? What if giving birth when her body is so small and young permanantly messes up her ability to give birth? What if giving birth gives her some sort of horrible injury. Girls, think of how terrible and painful an injury right there would be. What if having the baby inside of her is too much on her body and some sort of terrible accident happens, killing or injuring both the girl and the baby? What if the baby is born deformed? What if giving birth kills her? The horrible possibilities are endless. While I think consentually getting pregnant and killing the baby is selfish, putting all of the above possibilities (and more) on a young girl is selfish. No one should do that to her.

        Loading editor
    • Personally, I think that abortion is almost never acceptable. I believe that the only time anyone should abort a baby is when the baby is not going to survive anyway and it is painful to keep on living. 

      I understand what you guys are saying about saving the girl's life over the baby's, but I agree with Chicken Tornado on this one, that you would live in so much regret if you allowed someone to kill an innocent child.

      For example: What if you were a young girl that had been raped, and wanted to get an abortion. You saw them cruelly and painfully murder your baby. Now you have to live with that for the rest of your life.

      Just think about that. 

        Loading editor
    • I get what you're trying to say. And also, you know how painful giving birth is? A lot of woman say it's the worst pain in their life. And imagine that for a 12 year old girl. Not even an adult yet, can't even get a job yet, and where I live probably not even graduated elementary school! Would going to school even be an option? What about all her extra curriculars? Her friends? I just really feel like someone with so much of their life ahead of them shouldn't have it ruined by something that wasn't even their choice.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • For example: What if you were a young girl that had been raped, and wanted to get an abortion. You saw them cruelly and painfully murder your baby. Now you have to live with that for the rest of your life.

      Just think about that. 

      I'm not going to use myself as an example, but let's just say that a girl does go through that. I don't know your complete knowledge on that exact process, but it isn't "cruelly and painfully murder[ing] your baby". In most cases, it's just two types of medications (pills would be a better word), and it's deemed the safest way to end a pregnancy. I don't know about 12-year-olds now, but honestly, would you think they would care more about themselves or the child that they never consented to have? My money's on themselves. And there's nothing wrong with that; they're children. I, and this may sound cruel, but please hear me out, would have no qualms about giving up a child at that age, because think about it. The newborn's most likely not going to survive if the 'mother' decides to go with childbirth (it's just not likely), and the 'mother' will be more ​​​​​​​traumatized if that happens. Plus, the 12-year-old would have some irreversable damage that I'm not as knowledgable enough to talk about.

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote: I think that if you are raped and get pregnant at younger than about 15 or 16, the best option is to abort it. I hate the idea, but an innocent girl might die, be seriously hurt, or just have her life ruined because some terrible creep attacked her. Think about it. An twelve year old gets raped and gets pregnant. She can't go out in public anymore. Soccer? Nope. Ballet? Uh-uh. Even school? Probably not, her mom will probably take her out of school and homeschool her. But it's more than that. She will probably already be getting therapy because of the trauma from getting raped. But what if this scares her about getting pregnant ever again? What if every male walking by scares her? What if giving birth when her body is so small and young permanantly messes up her ability to give birth? What if giving birth gives her some sort of horrible injury. Girls, think of how terrible and painful an injury right there would be. What if having the baby inside of her is too much on her body and some sort of terrible accident happens, killing or injuring both the girl and the baby? What if the baby is born deformed? What if giving birth kills her? The horrible possibilities are endless. While I think consentually getting pregnant and killing the baby is selfish, putting all of the above possibilities (and more) on a young girl is selfish. No one should do that to her.

      I agree. Kids are too young to be pregnant no matter what, and if it comes out of rape, it can permanently damage their trust in adults or their body-self-esteem.

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:

      Chicken tornado wrote:
       

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      Personally, I really don't agree. Imagine if you were 12, and you got sexauly assulted. It would affect your mental health, your grades, and your socail life. Also, pregnacy is not fun. It's growing a person inside of you for nine 'months​​​​​​​. And if you were raped, it'd be worse. Most young girls are already self concouis enough without being pregnant at age 12. You'd be reminded of what someone did to you, without your consent, every time you looked in the mirror.

      I understand why people would feel that abortion is wrong, I just think having to be pregnant that young, and unwllingly, is wrong, especailly.

      I will personally always be pro-choice, but I understand were you're coming from.

      -Chloe

      Agreed 100%

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      I get what you're trying to say. And also, you know how painful giving birth is? A lot of woman say it's the worst pain in their life. And imagine that for a 12 year old girl. Not even an adult yet, can't even get a job yet, and where I live probably not even graduated elementary school! Would going to school even be an option? What about all her extra curriculars? Her friends? I just really feel like someone with so much of their life ahead of them shouldn't have it ruined by something that wasn't even their choice.

      -Chloe

      Exactly

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:

      For example: What if you were a young girl that had been raped, and wanted to get an abortion. You saw them cruelly and painfully murder your baby. Now you have to live with that for the rest of your life.

      Just think about that. 

      I'm not going to use myself as an example, but let's just say that a girl does go through that. I don't know your complete knowledge on that exact process, but it isn't "cruelly and painfully murder[ing] your baby". In most cases, it's just two types of medications (pills would be a better word), and it's deemed the safest way to end a pregnancy. I don't know about 12-year-olds now, but honestly, would you think they would care more about themselves or the child that they never consented to have? My money's on themselves. And there's nothing wrong with that; they're children. I, and this may sound cruel, but please hear me out, would have no qualms about giving up a child at that age, because think about it. The newborn's most likely not going to survive if the 'mother' decides to go with childbirth (it's just not likely), and the 'mother' will be more ​​​​​​​traumatized if that happens. Plus, the 12-year-old would have some irreversable damage that I'm not as knowledgable enough to talk about.

      I agree. Abortion is not "merciful" or "empowering" as the feminists describe it, but it it isn't like the mother is just sitting there watching her baby be slaughtered while she sits by and smiles. It's almost always pills (and a lot of times the mother does feel guilty. Most of the time she's not sitting by being happy about it or anything). As a middle schooler myself, and after having really thought about it, I think my reaction to getting pregnant would be awful. I'd never want anyone to know, and I'd want it gone. I'd feel terrible about it, but honestly I think I would start getting suicidal if, at my age, I got pregnant and my parents made me keep it. I would be absolutely miserable.

      And that's another thing. If the girl is young, it's not even her choice. You think a 12 year old is going to tell her parents, "I want to abort it" and even if they don't want to, they'll do it anyway? It's not her choice, she's much too young. Of course, the parents will probably check with her before making a final decision because it is her in question, but the decision will be mostly her parents' or gaurdians'.

        Loading editor
    • Here's the thing: 

      You're talking about how a baby could make life difficult for the mother, but honestly (and I'm NOT trying to be rude) thatsounds so selfish to me.  That the mother would preffer to murder and unborn child to keep up their own self esteem, or to keep their own social life in tact. You get to keep your social life, in exchange for one real life. I'd also like to point out that the child is still getting poisoned, even if ther are still an embreo. Murder is murder.  The fact that it's not as painful doesn;t make it right. 

      I won't argue that if the mother was not old enough to give birth and survive, or something along those lines, an abortion wouldn't be necesarily bad, ony because it was required to keep the mother alive.

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
      Here's the thing: 

      You're talking about how a baby could make life difficult for the mother, but honestly (and I'm NOT trying to be rude) thatsounds so selfish to me.  That the mother would preffer to murder and unborn child to keep up their own self esteem, or to keep their own social life in tact. You get to keep your social life, in exchange for one real life. I'd also like to point out that the child is still getting poisoned, even if ther are still an embreo. Murder is murder.  The fact that it's not as painful doesn;t make it right. 

      I won't argue that if the mother was not old enough to give birth and survive, or something along those lines, an abortion wouldn't be necesarily bad, ony because it was required to keep the mother alive.

      I get where you're coming from, and trust me, I don't like  any other abortion except for if the baby would die anyway or if the mother is under 16. But.... honestly, for a 12 year old... I think the best thing for her is to get it aborted.

        Loading editor
    • My veiws on abortion:

      It's wrong. Completely. Wrong. If you're married, and you CAN support the child... and get an abortion. That's the most selfish thing you can do. Taking away someone else's chance to live their life, to experience things, to make a difference. Because you are too lazy to take care of a child. That's out right ridiculous, it's completely wrong. Even if it isn't your choice. Put them into Foster care or let them get adopted, but DON'T kill them! 

      If you are a younger age - under the age of sixteen, or maybe even fifteen - girls used to get married and have kids at thirteen, fourteen, fifteen - that young. And they would have babies. Maybe something changed and we're not strong enough to support babies at that age anymore, I'm not exactly sure what happened - and if it wasn't your choice, I can see how you wouldn't want to keep the kid. But if there's a chance of you making it through, then... I still think it's wrong, though i'ts a little more understandable. 

      To me, if you are sixteen (possibly fifteen) and older, I don't care what the situation is, aborting the baby is not the solution. I'm saying that age range because at that point you are probably strong enough to have the baby without dying... but older than that - take care of it or adoption/foster care. Anything but MURDERING it! Under that age is acceptable but not preferable... 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote: My veiws on abortion:

      It's wrong. Completely. Wrong. If you're married, and you CAN support the child... and get an abortion. That's the most selfish thing you can do. Taking away someone else's chance to live their life, to experience things, to make a difference. Because you are too lazy to take care of a child. That's out right ridiculous, it's completely wrong. Even if it isn't your choice. Put them into Foster care or let them get adopted, but DON'T kill them! 

      If you are a younger age - under the age of sixteen, or maybe even fifteen - girls used to get married and have kids at thirteen, fourteen, fifteen - that young. And they would have babies. Maybe something changed and we're not strong enough to support babies at that age anymore, I'm not exactly sure what happened - and if it wasn't your choice, I can see how you wouldn't want to keep the kid. But if there's a chance of you making it through, then... I still think it's wrong, though i'ts a little more understandable. 

      To me, if you are sixteen (possibly fifteen) and older, I don't care what the situation is, aborting the baby is not the solution. I'm saying that age range because at that point you are probably strong enough to have the baby without dying... but older than that - take care of it or adoption/foster care. Anything but MURDERING it! Under that age is acceptable but not preferable... 

      -Black Panther 

      Correction: something didn't change and make people less strong and less able to support babies, actually more people (both teens and adults) died in childbirth back then

        Loading editor
    • Okay, probably true, but we have more modern things to help people give birth. 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • I have a question for everyone:

      If the mother would not survive (like, a 0% chance), but the child would (but have possible complications), would you see an abortion as acceptable? Super curious on this topic. Doesn't matter the age.

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote: Okay, probably true, but we have more modern things to help people give birth. 

      -Black Panther 

      True. Still, supporting a child is a painful, stressful thing that forever changes lives. that's way too much to burden a kid with.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote: I have a question for everyone:

      If the mother would not survive (like, a 0% chance), but the child would (but have possible complications), would you see an abortion as acceptable? Super curious on this topic. Doesn't matter the age.

      Acceptable. The child losing their life would be incredibly sad and unfortunate, but if the mother had no chance of survival, she should end the pregnancy.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      I have a question for everyone:

      If the mother would not survive (like, a 0% chance), but the child would (but have possible complications), would you see an abortion as acceptable? Super curious on this topic. Doesn't matter the age.

      To me,that depends a LOT on the circumstances, the woman's age, etc. If the girl is under teh age of fifteen, I would say yes, defiitely. However, if she is older than that, it depends if she's willing to sacrifice her life for her child. I don't find it acceptable but more so than if the woman knew she was going to live. 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 108.12.254.38 wrote:
      TeamKeefe12 wrote:
      Also, our bodies belong to God. ;)
      (I don't like the thought of peoples' bodies being owned by someone else...)

      By saying that, we mean that we're letting God's will determine what we do with our bodies. If He wants us to go somewhere, then we go. If He wants us to stay, we stay. That kind of thing. But we are also choosing to use our bodies to glorify him.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      I have a question for everyone:

      If the mother would not survive (like, a 0% chance), but the child would (but have possible complications), would you see an abortion as acceptable? Super curious on this topic. Doesn't matter the age.

      It's the mother's choice. Either one is not perfect, but a life is saved. 

        Loading editor
    • Also, a lot of people have been suggesting that a 12-year-old would have to support the child after birth.... I don't think so. The mother's parents or gaurdians, of course, would be the main care givers for their grandkid, seeing as the 12 year old (or similar age girl) would still need care herself.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      I have a question for everyone:

      If the mother would not survive (like, a 0% chance), but the child would (but have possible complications), would you see an abortion as acceptable? Super curious on this topic. Doesn't matter the age.

      The thing is, even though the mother wouldn't survive, God allowed her to become pregnant. Maybe he has big plans for that baby. Wouldn't it be super selfish for the mother to value her own life over her child's? Even though she's about to lose her life, should she really take things into her own hands?

      And another thing guys, Jesus has defeated death. If you give confess your sins to Him and ask Him to be the Lord of your life, you don't need to have fear of anything because you know God is guiding your life. And the thing is, you'll still have trouble in life. God didn't come to make life better on earth for us. But He gives us hope for our future and leads us in His way, the best way, to live.

      -NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • Honestly, why does it have to be abortion? Instead of just killing our children, couldn't we find a better way? If some mother and/or father decides they don't want their child, can't we still give that person a chance? I don't know how advanced we are in this area, but couldn't we find a way so that if the parents didn't want the child or the pregnancy was risky the child could be taken and finish deleloping somewhere else? Why do we have to be so extreme and kill the baby?

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
      Here's the thing: 

      You're talking about how a baby could make life difficult for the mother, but honestly (and I'm NOT trying to be rude) thatsounds so selfish to me.  That the mother would preffer to murder and unborn child to keep up their own self esteem, or to keep their own social life in tact. You get to keep your social life, in exchange for one real life. I'd also like to point out that the child is still getting poisoned, even if ther are still an embreo. Murder is murder.  The fact that it's not as painful doesn;t make it right. 

      I won't argue that if the mother was not old enough to give birth and survive, or something along those lines, an abortion wouldn't be necesarily bad, ony because it was required to keep the mother alive.

      It's not just to keep up self-esteem. A lot of young girls, myself included, have depression or anxiety. Imagine how much worse that would be if they had to carry a baby that was made inside them without their consent​​​​​​​ for nine. months. I'm not speaking for anyone ese here, but if that happened to me, I'd be suciudal.

      It's not fair to ask girls to carry a baby that will threaten their lives. Giving birth to babies at a young age is dangerous. Especailly since the baby, if it lived, might not have the best life. Imagine living your whole life knowing your real mother was out there somewhere, and didn't want you? Or living with a disablity because your mother was too young to safely give birth? Does anyone want to live like that?

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • Hi I'm christian, to the person above me, yes it is not fair to ask such young girls to carry babies. But here's the thing. Life. Is. Not. Fair. And to those girls who do carry their babies? It's nine months, and there are not nearly as many deaths in childbirth as there are in abortion. And people are basically saying "oh it's not fair for me to have nine months of my life ruined, so I'm going to brutally take this innocent childs entire life away". And even for the girls who get pregnant in rapes, there is ADOPTION. They don't want to raise a child that came from those circumstances? I get it. They literally have an entire system set up so children can find homes that are willing and able to support them no matter their looks, dissabilities, parents, backgrounds, WHATEVER it is. And love them anyway. One of my best friends family just adopted a little boy with lung issues that come from a horrible former home and he is the most adorable thing I have ever seen. He has a super loving family, with amazing parents and an AWESOME older brother. So good things DO come out of bad circumstances.

      Bottom line: WHy choose life? Your mother did.

      Please be nice I really am a good person and don't mean to be rude.

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      I have a question for everyone:

      If the mother would not survive (like, a 0% chance), but the child would (but have possible complications), would you see an abortion as acceptable? Super curious on this topic. Doesn't matter the age.

      The thing is, even though the mother wouldn't survive, God allowed her to become pregnant. Maybe he has big plans for that baby. Wouldn't it be super selfish for the mother to value her own life over her child's? Even though she's about to lose her life, should she really take things into her own hands?

      And another thing guys, Jesus has defeated death. If you give confess your sins to Him and ask Him to be the Lord of your life, you don't need to have fear of anything because you know God is guiding your life. And the thing is, you'll still have trouble in life. God didn't come to make life better on earth for us. But He gives us hope for our future and leads us in His way, the best way, to live.

      -NinjaTeddyBear

      You're right. As Christians, we shouldn't be afraid of death. But I'm too much of a sinner to say that I'd sacrifice myself for a baby I didn't ask for and can't handle.

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Hi I'm christian, to the person above me, yes it is not fair to ask such young girls to carry babies. But here's the thing. Life. Is. Not. Fair. And to those girls who do carry their babies? It's nine months, and there are not nearly as many deaths in childbirth as there are in abortion. And people are basically saying "oh it's not fair for me to have nine months of my life ruined, so I'm going to brutally take this innocent childs entire life away". And even for the girls who get pregnant in rapes, there is ADOPTION. They don't want to raise a child that came from those circumstances? I get it. They literally have an entire system set up so children can find homes that are willing and able to support them no matter their looks, dissabilities, parents, backgrounds, WHATEVER it is. And love them anyway. One of my best friends family just adopted a little boy with lung issues that come from a horrible former home and he is the most adorable thing I have ever seen. He has a super loving family, with amazing parents and an AWESOME older brother. So good things DO come out of bad circumstances.

      Bottom line: WHy choose life? Your mother did.

      Please be nice I really am a good person and don't mean to be rude.

      It's not just nine months. It's her whole life. There will be trauma. Most likely she will injure her ability to give birth. She might even die. These are things that last longer than nine months.

      Guys, you've all heard your moms complain about being pregnant. And they were most likely all older than 18 when they were pregnant. Now imagine a 12 year old pregnant. Her body might not be able to handle it.

        Loading editor
    • I'll correct myself yet again: 

      I think that if the child has a complication that will make living physically painful or difficult, then it should be aborted, because that is the humane thing to do. 

      The same goes for if the mother is not able to give birth safely, and if the mother is siucidal, then of course, the best thing to do is abort it.

      But I think still think that killing a child because it will cause any manner of depression or anxiety is selfish.  Is getting rid of the fetus to prevent complications that do not have any dangerous physical toll really worth one human life? 

      I also think that giving your child up for adoption is a much better option than abortion. If the kid goes through some emotional strife, then that's way better than being dead. 

      I personally know a girl who was adopted, and she had a long and difficult journey through the foster system. I've asked her about her thoughts on abortion, and what she thought about the idea that her mom might have aborted her. She said that she was thankful that her birth mother didn't abort her, and was thankful that she had the chance to live and a chance to have good parents who love her. (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it)

      Again, if the child has a painful or very restrictive disability before birth or the mother is unable to give birth safely, an abortion is not only acceptable but humane. 

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
      I'll correct myself yet again: 

      I think that if the child has a complication that will make living physically painful or difficult, then it should be aborted, because that is the humane thing to do. 

      The same goes for if the mother is not able to give birth safely, and if the mother is siucidal, then of course, the best thing to do is abort it.

      But I think still think that killing a child because it will cause any manner of depression or anxiety is selfish.  Is getting rid of the fetus to prevent complications that do not have any dangerous physical toll really worth one human life? 

      I also think that giving your child up for adoption is a much better option than abortion. If the kid goes through some emotional strife, then that's way better than being dead. 

      I personally know a girl who was adopted, and she had a long and difficult journey through the foster system. I've asked her about her thoughts on abortion, and what she thought about the idea that her mom might have aborted her. She said that she was thankful that her birth mother didn't abort her, and was thankful that she had the chance to live and a chance to have good parents who love her. (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it)

      Again, if the child has a painful or very restrictive disability before birth or the mother is unable to give birth safely, an abortion is not only acceptable but humane. 

      I agree

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:

      But I think still think that killing a child because it will cause any manner of depression or anxiety is selfish.  Is getting rid of the fetus to prevent complications that do not have any dangerous physical toll really worth one human life? 

      I also think that giving your child up for adoption is a much better option than abortion. If the kid goes through some emotional strife, then that's way better than being dead.

      I agree with most of what you are saying, but if I could just argue (bad choice of wording; refute sounds better) about one more thing.

      Sometimes, abortions can be better than adoptions. Hear me out. If, again going back to the young child example, the child (the mother, that is) is going to get a lifetime of depression or anxiety, you sure know she's going with suicide. That sounds so straight-out and cruel, but it's true. How would the baby feel about that? Knowing she's too much of a burden because of their slight age difference?

      Here's the other thing. When you say "If the kid goes through some emotional strife, then that's way better than being dead", I could disagree with you on that. If the kid goes through some emotional conflict, you sure know that they're going to take their life. Emotional strife is so ​​​​​​​scary, and it'll be even scarier for a child that thinks their mother doesn't want them and that they've (the child) done physical and mental harm to their mother. Sometimes, it's just better to abort than psychologically torture the child.

        Loading editor
    • Here's the thing though. At least if you don't go throught the abortion they have a choice. What if you were to kill the baby and she/he was going to be one of the people who say "Ok you know what, I wish my mother would have not given my up, but my adoptive parents love me, my friends love me and I'm ok with that"? You just never know and it's not worth taking away their life without their consent.

        Loading editor
    • I think what y'all are talking about depends on the age and situation of the mother. Younger than 15, abort it. Older than 14, keep it.

        Loading editor
    • Or they could hate their life, parents, etc. That's why I said 'sometimes'. You just don't know. That's why I say that it should be the mother's choice. 

      You wouldn't be able to get their consent though. I newborn is self-explanatory, a five-year-old would want to live, and a 12-year-old possibly wouldn't. You just don't know sometimes.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      Or they could hate their life, parents, etc. That's why I said 'sometimes'. You just don't know. That's why I say that it should be the mother's choice. 

      You wouldn't be able to get their consent though. I newborn is self-explanatory, a five-year-old would want to live, and a 12-year-old possibly wouldn't. You just don't know sometimes.

      You're right. It really depends on the circumstances.

        Loading editor
    • So you're saying that something as small as a month would change something like this? Let me put it this way. If you were 14, and found yourself pregnant (let's say unplanned with a boyfriend for context, sorry if you're a guy reading this) would you really go through with it? Would you ever want to explain to your future kids that they could have an older sibling but you thought you couldn't handle it? What if the boyfriend DIDN'T want to abort the baby for those reasons? And above all would you want the death hanging over your head forever.

      Also not as an arguement but if any of you guys are able Unplanned is a super good movie, I higly recommend it.

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      So you're saying that something as small as a month would change something like this? Let me put it this way. If you were 14, and found yourself pregnant (let's say unplanned with a boyfriend for context, sorry if you're a guy reading this) would you really go through with it? Would you ever want to explain to your future kids that they could have an older sibling but you thought you couldn't handle it? What if the boyfriend DIDN'T want to abort the baby for those reasons? And above all would you want the death hanging over your head forever.

      Also not as an arguement but if any of you guys are able Unplanned is a super good movie, I higly recommend it.

      I'm not the best example, but at 14, yes, I would. It's not something that I would ever want (sorry), so I would go through with it. But I'm certainly a different case.

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      So you're saying that something as small as a month would change something like this? Let me put it this way. If you were 14, and found yourself pregnant (let's say unplanned with a boyfriend for context, sorry if you're a guy reading this) would you really go through with it? Would you ever want to explain to your future kids that they could have an older sibling but you thought you couldn't handle it? What if the boyfriend DIDN'T want to abort the baby for those reasons? And above all would you want the death hanging over your head forever.

      Also not as an arguement but if any of you guys are able Unplanned is a super good movie, I higly recommend it.

      At 14 I would most likely. Like I said, I hate the idea, but honestly it's the best option (not a GOOD option, but the best one out of the very, very small selection).

      In the movie Unplanned they don't cover younger abortions (not arguing that it's not a good movie though :)), though. The girl had an abortion when she was in college and later when she was, what, in her 20's? That's the kind of abortions that I don't support.

      You don't see many people talk about abortions for younger girls because honestly they don't know what to say. I barely know what to say. I don't like the idea of abortions. But there are cases when it's just the best option out of the few. 

        Loading editor
    • Also, this is probably really controversial, but what are you guys' opinions on how men should be involved in abortion decisions? Personally I think that a woman's husband or boyfriend can be involved in the situation since it's his child, and the father of a young girl who gets pregnant can have some say too. But I don't like the idea of men trying to join arguments about abortions? They can argue as the father of the child but other circumstances, no. Men will never be pregnant, and they will never have to have the same horrible situations happen to them as a young girl who gets pregnant. I'm sorry if this was really blatant or offensive, I'm not trying to be that way (also sorry if you're a guy reading this.)

        Loading editor
    • YES men should 1000000000% be involved, it takes two to make a child, they deserve to have their opinions spoken in the matter as well. Even if it's not their child, they have every right to say what they think about it. 

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote: Also, this is probably really controversial, but what are you guys' opinions on how men should be involved in abortion decisions? Personally I think that a woman's husband or boyfriend can be involved in the situation since it's his child, and the father of a young girl who gets pregnant can have some say too. But I don't like the idea of men trying to join arguments about abortions? They can argue as the father of the child but other circumstances, no. Men will never be pregnant, and they will never have to have the same horrible situations happen to them as a young girl who gets pregnant. I'm sorry if this was really blatant or offensive, I'm not trying to be that way (also sorry if you're a guy reading this.)

      I think they can have a say but not all the way. I can't type it out because in my head it is very logical in a way only to me. I tried to type it out but it was a mess

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      Also, this is probably really controversial, but what are you guys' opinions on how men should be involved in abortion decisions? Personally I think that a woman's husband or boyfriend can be involved in the situation since it's his child, and the father of a young girl who gets pregnant can have some say too. But I don't like the idea of men trying to join arguments about abortions? They can argue as the father of the child but other circumstances, no. Men will never be pregnant, and they will never have to have the same horrible situations happen to them as a young girl who gets pregnant. I'm sorry if this was really blatant or offensive, I'm not trying to be that way (also sorry if you're a guy reading this.)

      I don't like the idea of abotion except in the case that it's neccesary for medical reasons, but I think that men should be involved in the decision (if there has to be one). The kid is his, too. That means he has to support it and help raise it, not to mention the finacial responsability that he has to put up with. The man should definetily have a say in the matter.

      (again, I don't think abotion should be some "choice" that you can make like pressing a button, but I've already had my say on that matter)

        Loading editor
    • ^Okay they put it in words just like I would basically

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      Also, this is probably really controversial, but what are you guys' opinions on how men should be involved in abortion decisions? Personally I think that a woman's husband or boyfriend can be involved in the situation since it's his child, and the father of a young girl who gets pregnant can have some say too. But I don't like the idea of men trying to join arguments about abortions? They can argue as the father of the child but other circumstances, no. Men will never be pregnant, and they will never have to have the same horrible situations happen to them as a young girl who gets pregnant. I'm sorry if this was really blatant or offensive, I'm not trying to be that way (also sorry if you're a guy reading this.)

      Personally, I think a boyfriend or husband can put in their opinon, but it's the woman's desicion. She's the one who will have to deal with be being pregnant and giving birth.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Hi I'm christian, to the person above me, yes it is not fair to ask such young girls to carry babies. But here's the thing. Life. Is. Not. Fair. 

      I know life is unfair as much as everyone else, but asking a girl to carry a baby that can affect her whole life, isn't just unfair, it's creul.​​​​​​​ No one should ever have to do that.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      Also, this is probably really controversial, but what are you guys' opinions on how men should be involved in abortion decisions? Personally I think that a woman's husband or boyfriend can be involved in the situation since it's his child, and the father of a young girl who gets pregnant can have some say too. But I don't like the idea of men trying to join arguments about abortions? They can argue as the father of the child but other circumstances, no. Men will never be pregnant, and they will never have to have the same horrible situations happen to them as a young girl who gets pregnant. I'm sorry if this was really blatant or offensive, I'm not trying to be that way (also sorry if you're a guy reading this.)
      Personally, I think a boyfriend or husband can put in their opinon, but it's the woman's desicion. She's the one who will have to deal with be being pregnant and giving birth.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. A man shouldn't make a choice about a woman's body for her.

      (Since 99.9% of men haven't been and can't be pregnant, they don't understand how big of a thing a pregnancy is for a woman. not that I would want anyone making the choice for the woman (except for her parents if she's a kid))



      -Cress

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:

      But I think still think that killing a child because it will cause any manner of depression or anxiety is selfish.  Is getting rid of the fetus to prevent complications that do not have any dangerous physical toll really worth one human life? 

      Depression is a terrible thing to go through. I'm not going to go into details, but it's awful. It's literally toture to be alive sometimes. I would say that giving up a baby so that you can keep your will to live isn't selfish to me.

      I understand what you mean. But no one really understands depression unless they've expereinced it. It's something you can't explain. And in a way, that baby could result in a physical toll. Suicide.

      sorry if that was offensive, I don't mean it to be at all

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • You're talking about people's emotions over going through labor and the pains of pregnancy, but having a healthy child, that you do not have to raise, and if you wanted to you could visit and connect with, probably wouldn't have nearly as much as negative emotional impact as ending the baby's life and later on realzing that it could be alive and healthy.

      Again none of my arguments are personal, please don't take me as being offensive.

        Loading editor
    • I honestly feel that (and this is just how it think I would feel) if I were to get pregnant, aborting the baby would be less emotionally scarring. Being sexauly assulted is scarring enough, but bearing that child that came from that traumatic experience is just too much for anyone to be forced to do. That's just how I feel, no disrespect meant towards anyone with diffrent opinions.

      My opinion: If you are sexauly assulted, and want to abort the baby, I 100% agree. Honestly, if you want to get an abortion for any reason, I will agree. It's your body, you have to live with it.

      Again, just my veiw. No offense meant to anyone who might be offended.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      So you're saying that something as small as a month would change something like this? Let me put it this way. If you were 14, and found yourself pregnant (let's say unplanned with a boyfriend for context, sorry if you're a guy reading this) would you really go through with it? Would you ever want to explain to your future kids that they could have an older sibling but you thought you couldn't handle it? What if the boyfriend DIDN'T want to abort the baby for those reasons? And above all would you want the death hanging over your head forever.

      Also not as an arguement but if any of you guys are able Unplanned is a super good movie, I higly recommend it.

      Actually, that's another thing - a lot of people struggle with guilt and depression for aborting their babies. They even commit suicide because they can't deal with the guilt. Aborting a baby isn't exactly inoccent, even if the doctors say the baby isn't alive. Guys, this is murder we're talking about. Murder. ​​​​​​​You're not going to be fully consequence free if you abort a baby. Ever. It's always  going to come back to you! CAUSE YOU WILLINGLY CONSENTED TO HAVING YOUR CHILD MURDERED. 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      YES men should 1000000000% be involved, it takes two to make a child, they deserve to have their opinions spoken in the matter as well. Even if it's not their child, they have every right to say what they think about it. 

      Yes, they should have a say in it, but like Sokeefe Kat said, they will NEVER go through the process of having a baby - the discomfort and pain, the emotional truama, taking care of the child while they're at work or doing whatever - they don't know what it's like and having a baby isn't exactly a small thing. It's going to affect you for the rest of your life. 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 108.12.254.38 wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      Also, this is probably really controversial, but what are you guys' opinions on how men should be involved in abortion decisions? Personally I think that a woman's husband or boyfriend can be involved in the situation since it's his child, and the father of a young girl who gets pregnant can have some say too. But I don't like the idea of men trying to join arguments about abortions? They can argue as the father of the child but other circumstances, no. Men will never be pregnant, and they will never have to have the same horrible situations happen to them as a young girl who gets pregnant. I'm sorry if this was really blatant or offensive, I'm not trying to be that way (also sorry if you're a guy reading this.)
      Personally, I think a boyfriend or husband can put in their opinon, but it's the woman's desicion. She's the one who will have to deal with be being pregnant and giving birth.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. A man shouldn't make a choice about a woman's body for her.

      (Since 99.9% of men haven't been and can't be pregnant, they don't understand how big of a thing a pregnancy is for a woman. not that I would want anyone making the choice for the woman (except for her parents if she's a kid))



      -Cress

      Pretty sure 100% of the men haven't ever gotten pregnant... cause unless you are a transgender girl it's not happening... and you're still a girl in that case even if try to say you're not. Sorry if I've been offensive at all.

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • Guys, I just did this devotion... not sure how closely it's related to this topic or can be applied but:

      There are so many ways in which God can work in our lives to transform us, but in Romans 12:2 we are told that God’s transformation takes place through the renewing of our mind. This anakainosis, or gradual process of renewal, involves us being willing to literally change our minds and to begin to think more like God! To begin to focus on the bigger picture.

      This isn’t something that we humans find that easy. We are remarkably self-centred. Ever since the early Greeks looked up to the skies and decided that the earth was the centre of the universe, we have tended to think that the world revolves around us. How often do we wail ‘what have I done to deserve this’, as if how we behave somehow dictates the way the world works?

      When I was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer a few years ago, one of my biggest worries was that my children would think that somehow God had done this to me and that it would impact their faith. I knew that God didn’t work like this, but I also knew that many young Christians really struggle with the idea that you can come to Christ and still face adversity.

      Jesus, of course, was incredibly up-front about this fact, telling his disciples ‘in this world you will have trouble’ (John 16:33 NIV). He never promised us a rose garden! In fact, if you consider Christ’s life and ministry, it is hard to get away from the idea of suffering and, as Jesus himself told us, part of the process of transformation is picking up our own cross, whatever that may be.

      But Jesus also said, ‘Take heart! I have overcome the world.’ God is so much greater than any challenge we may face in this life. So being transformed by God involves shifting our perspective, focusing less on our own worldly concerns and instead fixing our attention on his power, majesty and promise in Christ.

      This, of course, is easier said than done. You have to make a deliberate choice to focus on the bigger picture. We are to make the conscious choice to put on ‘a garment of praise, instead of a spirit of despair’ (Isa. 61:3 NIV). As I have found in my own life, when we look beyond our circumstances, however challenging, when we lift our eyes and praise him, God can do something truly transformative.

      Reflection: The Psalmists provide us with a wonderful model for praise. Even when David was at his most fearful, he lifted up his voice and praised the Lord. How can you build praise into your daily life? 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      I have a question for everyone:

      If the mother would not survive (like, a 0% chance), but the child would (but have possible complications), would you see an abortion as acceptable? Super curious on this topic. Doesn't matter the age.

      The thing is, even though the mother wouldn't survive, God allowed her to become pregnant. Maybe he has big plans for that baby. Wouldn't it be super selfish for the mother to value her own life over her child's? Even though she's about to lose her life, should she really take things into her own hands?

      And another thing guys, Jesus has defeated death. If you give confess your sins to Him and ask Him to be the Lord of your life, you don't need to have fear of anything because you know God is guiding your life. And the thing is, you'll still have trouble in life. God didn't come to make life better on earth for us. But He gives us hope for our future and leads us in His way, the best way, to live.

      -NinjaTeddyBear

      You're right. As Christians, we shouldn't be afraid of death. But I'm too much of a sinner to say that I'd sacrifice myself for a baby I didn't ask for and can't handle.

      Honestly, this is a situation that wouldn't happen often. And although it might sound scary, if God lets you go through it, He would help you through it Sokeefe-kat.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      So you're saying that something as small as a month would change something like this? Let me put it this way. If you were 14, and found yourself pregnant (let's say unplanned with a boyfriend for context, sorry if you're a guy reading this) would you really go through with it? Would you ever want to explain to your future kids that they could have an older sibling but you thought you couldn't handle it? What if the boyfriend DIDN'T want to abort the baby for those reasons? And above all would you want the death hanging over your head forever.

      Also not as an arguement but if any of you guys are able Unplanned is a super good movie, I higly recommend it.

      Actually, that's another thing - a lot of people struggle with guilt and depression for aborting their babies. They even commit suicide because they can't deal with the guilt. Aborting a baby isn't exactly inoccent, even if the doctors say the baby isn't alive. Guys, this is murder we're talking about. Murder. ​​​​​​​You're not going to be fully consequence free if you abort a baby. Ever. It's always  going to come back to you! CAUSE YOU WILLINGLY CONSENTED TO HAVING YOUR CHILD MURDERED. 

      -Black Panther 

      I agree. Either way there's gonna be conflict in your emotions that could lead to depression. You can't change the fact that you've gotten pregnant. If you think that killing the baby is gonna make things the way you want them to, you're fooling yourself. Killing the baby just hides the fact that you were pregnant and adds more guilt to yourself. 

      ​​​​​​​I'm pretty sure that there is no one here has had an abortion, but maybe there is someone else who's reading all this and has had one. If you have and you're drownding in guilt from it, or maybe just from all the mistakes you've made, wishing there was a way to get rid of them, well, there is. Jesus will forgive you. He died just so that your sins could be forgiven. You don't have to live with them anymore.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      108.12.254.38 wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      Also, this is probably really controversial, but what are you guys' opinions on how men should be involved in abortion decisions? Personally I think that a woman's husband or boyfriend can be involved in the situation since it's his child, and the father of a young girl who gets pregnant can have some say too. But I don't like the idea of men trying to join arguments about abortions? They can argue as the father of the child but other circumstances, no. Men will never be pregnant, and they will never have to have the same horrible situations happen to them as a young girl who gets pregnant. I'm sorry if this was really blatant or offensive, I'm not trying to be that way (also sorry if you're a guy reading this.)
      Personally, I think a boyfriend or husband can put in their opinon, but it's the woman's desicion. She's the one who will have to deal with be being pregnant and giving birth.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. A man shouldn't make a choice about a woman's body for her.

      (Since 99.9% of men haven't been and can't be pregnant, they don't understand how big of a thing a pregnancy is for a woman. not that I would want anyone making the choice for the woman (except for her parents if she's a kid))



      -Cress

      Pretty sure 100% of the men haven't ever gotten pregnant... cause unless you are a transgender girl it's not happening... and you're still a girl in that case even if try to say you're not. Sorry if I've been offensive at all.

      -Black Panther 

      Transgender girls can't get pregnant, they don't have anatomically female reproductive systems...



      unless you mean transgender boys, who are still boys (btw, being able to get pregnant doesn't make you a girl... it's not okay to just say that someone's a certain gender if you've never been inside their brain), thank you




      -Cress

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:

      But I think still think that killing a child because it will cause any manner of depression or anxiety is selfish.  Is getting rid of the fetus to prevent complications that do not have any dangerous physical toll really worth one human life? 

      Depression is a terrible thing to go through. I'm not going to go into details, but it's awful. It's literally toture to be alive sometimes. I would say that giving up a baby so that you can keep your will to live isn't selfish to me.

      I understand what you mean. But no one really understands depression unless they've expereinced it. It's something you can't explain. And in a way, that baby could result in a physical toll. Suicide.

      sorry if that was offensive, I don't mean it to be at all

      -Chloe </div>


      Depression is the worst thing that anyone could ever go through. 



      besides, if the mother commits suicide, the baby could still die. 

        Loading editor
    • ^ *face palm* yeah tht's what I meant Cress (well, from my pov, they are still the gender they were born, even if they say that they aren't.. I'm sorry, it's just what I believe, you can believe whatever you want, but it  won't change that fact that I believe you can't change your gender. It's true, I haven't been in their minds - I've never been inside a murderers mind (not to compare lgbtq+ people to murderers, that's not what I'm implying) either) 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • notif

        Loading editor
    • I think we should do one argument at a time... abortion AND lgtbq+ arguments at once might be a lot...

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote: I think we should do one argument at a time... abortion AND lgtbq+ arguments at once might be a lot...

      sorry about that! agreed.


      also the posts aren't showing up on this thread - I posted the "notif" thing before I saw Black Panther's message

        Loading editor
    • MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      Sokeefe-kat wrote: I think we should do one argument at a time... abortion AND lgtbq+ arguments at once might be a lot...

      sorry about that! agreed.


      also the posts aren't showing up on this thread - I posted the "notif" thing before I saw Black Panther's message

      that's weird.. maybe the wiki is messing up a lil'

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote:

      MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      Sokeefe-kat wrote: I think we should do one argument at a time... abortion AND lgtbq+ arguments at once might be a lot...

      sorry about that! agreed.


      also the posts aren't showing up on this thread - I posted the "notif" thing before I saw Black Panther's message

      that's weird.. maybe the wiki is messing up a lil'

      also might be my wifi

      sorry about getting off-topic

        Loading editor
    • it's okay

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      ^ *face palm* yeah tht's what I meant Cress (well, from my pov, they are still the gender they were born, even if they say that they aren't.. I'm sorry, it's just what I believe, you can believe whatever you want, but it  won't change that fact that I believe you can't change your gender. It's true, I haven't been in their minds - I've never been inside a murderers mind (not to compare lgbtq+ people to murderers, that's not what I'm implying) either) 

      -Black Panther 

      Yeah I was trying to respond to you Cress not the other person XD

      -Black Pnather 

        Loading editor
    • Wait r we talking about transgender rn?

        Loading editor
    • Yes

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • Wait are we talking about abortion or trans/LGBTQ+?

        Loading editor
    • Kinda both ig 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • we're talking about abortion still.

        Loading editor
    • Just wanted to say something else about abortion although I think we've moved on-

      Have any of you guys seen Unplanned? Because it shows that abortion is a lot more cruel than people think it is. I'm not going to go into the details because it is pretty gruesome, but it is not a harmless process. Even if abortion saves the mother physical pain, she may very well be emotionally scarred for a very long time. I know someone who had an abortion once. They have regretted it ever since and have now adopted kids to show that abortion is not the only option. Every human being has a right to live, and no baby is an "accident." Every single fetus was lovingly formed by God. Killing a baby, or aborting it, whatever you want to call it, strictly violates the sixth comandment, which states "Do Not Murder." It doesn't say, "do not murder adults," or "do not murder anyone besides unborn babies." It means that every life is precious in God's eyes, regardless of whether the person has been born or not.

        Loading editor
    • Sokeefe-kat wrote:
      we're talking about abortion still.

      oh ok nvm, didn't see that

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      Just wanted to say something else about abortion although I think we've moved on-

      Have any of you guys seen Unplanned? Because it shows that abortion is a lot more cruel than people think it is. I'm not going to go into the details because it is pretty gruesome, but it is not a harmless process. Even if abortion saves the mother physical pain, she may very well be emotionally scarred for a very long time. I know someone who had an abortion once. They have regretted it ever since and have now adopted kids to show that abortion is not the only option. Every human being has a right to live, and no baby is an "accident." Every single fetus was lovingly formed by God. Killing a baby, or aborting it, whatever you want to call it, strictly violates the sixth comandment, which states "Do Not Murder." It doesn't say, "do not murder adults," or "do not murder anyone besides unborn babies." It means that every life is precious in God's eyes, regardless of whether the person has been born or not.

      Exactly! 

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      Just wanted to say something else about abortion although I think we've moved on-

      Have any of you guys seen Unplanned? Because it shows that abortion is a lot more cruel than people think it is. I'm not going to go into the details because it is pretty gruesome, but it is not a harmless process. Even if abortion saves the mother physical pain, she may very well be emotionally scarred for a very long time. I know someone who had an abortion once. They have regretted it ever since and have now adopted kids to show that abortion is not the only option. Every human being has a right to live, and no baby is an "accident." Every single fetus was lovingly formed by God. Killing a baby, or aborting it, whatever you want to call it, strictly violates the sixth comandment, which states "Do Not Murder." It doesn't say, "do not murder adults," or "do not murder anyone besides unborn babies." It means that every life is precious in God's eyes, regardless of whether the person has been born or not.

      FIRE!!!!!!!!! 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      Just wanted to say something else about abortion although I think we've moved on-

      Have any of you guys seen Unplanned? Because it shows that abortion is a lot more cruel than people think it is. I'm not going to go into the details because it is pretty gruesome, but it is not a harmless process. Even if abortion saves the mother physical pain, she may very well be emotionally scarred for a very long time. I know someone who had an abortion once. They have regretted it ever since and have now adopted kids to show that abortion is not the only option. Every human being has a right to live, and no baby is an "accident." Every single fetus was lovingly formed by God. Killing a baby, or aborting it, whatever you want to call it, strictly violates the sixth comandment, which states "Do Not Murder." It doesn't say, "do not murder adults," or "do not murder anyone besides unborn babies." It means that every life is precious in God's eyes, regardless of whether the person has been born or not.

      Love it. I agree 100%.

        Loading editor
    • I'm a Christian Keeper fan! Can I join?

        Loading editor
    • yeah... I don't think you really need to join, you can just start debating. There isn't really a list of members

        Loading editor
    • If I'm wrong, someone correct me. But Hermabeth Foster, I think it's fine if you just start adding your own opinions. That's what I did

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      Just wanted to say something else about abortion although I think we've moved on-

      Have any of you guys seen Unplanned? Because it shows that abortion is a lot more cruel than people think it is. I'm not going to go into the details because it is pretty gruesome, but it is not a harmless process. Even if abortion saves the mother physical pain, she may very well be emotionally scarred for a very long time. I know someone who had an abortion once. They have regretted it ever since and have now adopted kids to show that abortion is not the only option. Every human being has a right to live, and no baby is an "accident." Every single fetus was lovingly formed by God. Killing a baby, or aborting it, whatever you want to call it, strictly violates the sixth comandment, which states "Do Not Murder." It doesn't say, "do not murder adults," or "do not murder anyone besides unborn babies." It means that every life is precious in God's eyes, regardless of whether the person has been born or not.

      Aah I feel so rude debating because it seems like I'm trying to pick a fight with everyone, and I promise I'm not! :(

      You can regret something but still know it was the right choice. I've have plenty of regrets, but deep down, I know it was for the best. If you're underage, and/or know the baby's going to have some awful physical issues, it's best they [the child] not suffer the consequences of the mother's actions, right?

      An accident is "an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally." We're probably talking about two different things, but I can assure you, many babies are "accidents", whether from sexual assault to... other things, but babies can be "accidents". By the dictionary definition, at least.

      Please don't be offended! I feel so rude :(((

        Loading editor
    • I'm not offended, but I disagree with you when you say that you think abortion is the right choice. If the baby is already going to die, that may be the only time that I would support aborting it. But in any other case, I believe that God cares about every single life, even an unborn baby's. 

        Loading editor
    • Though if the baby is going to die anyway, why kill it? Why not give it at least a chance to live? You never know, there could be a miracle.

        Loading editor
    • I agree with TheCharmingBookworm. If, suddenly, the baby is able to live, and you just go ahead and kill it, it's one life wasted, and you never know, that kid could've ended world hunger(improbable) or brought world peace, or became the next president of the united states.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      Just wanted to say something else about abortion although I think we've moved on-

      Have any of you guys seen Unplanned? Because it shows that abortion is a lot more cruel than people think it is. I'm not going to go into the details because it is pretty gruesome, but it is not a harmless process. Even if abortion saves the mother physical pain, she may very well be emotionally scarred for a very long time. I know someone who had an abortion once. They have regretted it ever since and have now adopted kids to show that abortion is not the only option. Every human being has a right to live, and no baby is an "accident." Every single fetus was lovingly formed by God. Killing a baby, or aborting it, whatever you want to call it, strictly violates the sixth comandment, which states "Do Not Murder." It doesn't say, "do not murder adults," or "do not murder anyone besides unborn babies." It means that every life is precious in God's eyes, regardless of whether the person has been born or not.

      Aah I feel so rude debating because it seems like I'm trying to pick a fight with everyone, and I promise I'm not! :(

      You can regret something but still know it was the right choice. I've have plenty of regrets, but deep down, I know it was for the best. If you're underage, and/or know the baby's going to have some awful physical issues, it's best they [the child] not suffer the consequences of the mother's actions, right?

      An accident is "an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally." We're probably talking about two different things, but I can assure you, many babies are "accidents", whether from sexual assault to... other things, but babies can be "accidents". By the dictionary definition, at least.

      Please don't be offended! I feel so rude :(((

      Actually, it kinda depends on whay you're guilty for. If an adult can't handle the situation of being raped or somehting unfortunate like that and they can't deal with the guilt of aborting a baby, how much worse would it be for a younger girl to be in that situation?

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • Hermabeth Foster wrote:
      I agree with TheCharmingBookworm. If, suddenly, the baby is able to live, and you just go ahead and kill it, it's one life wasted, and you never know, that kid could've ended world hunger(improbable) or brought world peace, or became the next president of the united states.

      very true

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Though if the baby is going to die anyway, why kill it? Why not give it at least a chance to live? You never know, there could be a miracle.

      The only excuse I can give is the emotional trauma of holding your child who you'll never meet. Never comfort. Never see their smile. Never have the joy of raising. Even if it has that 0.01% chance of surviving (I say .01 because if the obstetrician already said/saw so, it's super unprobable), the 99.9% chance of holding your dead baby is so awful. You'd be scarred for life if that ever happens; you might never even have a child again. That's the only refute I can think of. 

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      Just wanted to say something else about abortion although I think we've moved on-

      Have any of you guys seen Unplanned? Because it shows that abortion is a lot more cruel than people think it is. I'm not going to go into the details because it is pretty gruesome, but it is not a harmless process. Even if abortion saves the mother physical pain, she may very well be emotionally scarred for a very long time. I know someone who had an abortion once. They have regretted it ever since and have now adopted kids to show that abortion is not the only option. Every human being has a right to live, and no baby is an "accident." Every single fetus was lovingly formed by God. Killing a baby, or aborting it, whatever you want to call it, strictly violates the sixth comandment, which states "Do Not Murder." It doesn't say, "do not murder adults," or "do not murder anyone besides unborn babies." It means that every life is precious in God's eyes, regardless of whether the person has been born or not.

      Aah I feel so rude debating because it seems like I'm trying to pick a fight with everyone, and I promise I'm not! :(

      You can regret something but still know it was the right choice. I've have plenty of regrets, but deep down, I know it was for the best. If you're underage, and/or know the baby's going to have some awful physical issues, it's best they [the child] not suffer the consequences of the mother's actions, right?

      An accident is "an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally." We're probably talking about two different things, but I can assure you, many babies are "accidents", whether from sexual assault to... other things, but babies can be "accidents". By the dictionary definition, at least.

      Please don't be offended! I feel so rude :(((

      Ok, maybe from human eyes, they can be accidents, but the thing is, they're aren't accidents in God's eyes. Maybe you weren't expecting to become pregnant, no matter how or why it happened, but God was. Maybe you don't believe in God, so maybe this argument doesn't really make sense to you, but that doesn't mean God isn't real. (Sorry, not trying to upset anyone here, but God is real.)

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Though if the baby is going to die anyway, why kill it? Why not give it at least a chance to live? You never know, there could be a miracle.
      The only excuse I can give is the emotional trauma of holding your child who you'll never meet. Never comfort. Never see their smile. Never have the joy of raising. Even if it has that 0.01% chance of surviving (I say .01 because if the obstetrician already said/saw so, it's super unprobable), the 99.9% chance of holding your dead baby is so awful. You'd be scarred for life if that ever happens; you might never even have a child again. That's the only refute I can think of. 

      Even if that happens, at least you know it wasn't your fault that the baby died. It might hurt you to see the baby, but it wasn't your fault. If you abort the baby you're killing it. 

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      If I'm wrong, someone correct me. But Hermabeth Foster, I think it's fine if you just start adding your own opinions. That's what I did

      Yeah, you can just add your own opinions. 

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      Hermabeth Foster wrote:
      I agree with TheCharmingBookworm. If, suddenly, the baby is able to live, and you just go ahead and kill it, it's one life wasted, and you never know, that kid could've ended world hunger(improbable) or brought world peace, or became the next president of the united states.
      very true

      -Black Panther 

      Yeah, good point. 

        Loading editor
    • You're right

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Though if the baby is going to die anyway, why kill it? Why not give it at least a chance to live? You never know, there could be a miracle.
      The only excuse I can give is the emotional trauma of holding your child who you'll never meet. Never comfort. Never see their smile. Never have the joy of raising. Even if it has that 0.01% chance of surviving (I say .01 because if the obstetrician already said/saw so, it's super unprobable), the 99.9% chance of holding your dead baby is so awful. You'd be scarred for life if that ever happens; you might never even have a child again. That's the only refute I can think of. 
      Even if that happens, at least you know it wasn't your fault that the baby died. It might hurt you to see the baby, but it wasn't your fault. If you abort the baby you're killing it. 

      NinjaTeddyBear

      Exactly what I was thinking.

        Loading editor
    • And even if the baby does die naturally, it would probably be a much less painful death than abortion. There is footage of babies trying to get away from the abortion instruments.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:

      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Though if the baby is going to die anyway, why kill it? Why not give it at least a chance to live? You never know, there could be a miracle.

      The only excuse I can give is the emotional trauma of holding your child who you'll never meet. Never comfort. Never see their smile. Never have the joy of raising. Even if it has that 0.01% chance of surviving (I say .01 because if the obstetrician already said/saw so, it's super unprobable), the 99.9% chance of holding your dead baby is so awful. You'd be scarred for life if that ever happens; you might never even have a child again. That's the only refute I can think of. 

      Your baby dying is awful. From abortion or just a miscarriage it is not good. You will scarred either way. I know someone who had 3 miscarriages before having a child. (can y'all pray for her btw, her husband passed about a year ago and she her son isn't even 2). And I know someone young who had a miscarriage and she was devastated. What evelina said is true. Seeing your dead child might be too much, but if there is even the smallest chance of it living, I wouldn't want to abort it

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      And even if the baby does die naturally, it would probably be a much less painful death than abortion. There is footage of babies trying to get away from the abortion instruments.

      Dang... that's just proof that they're alive... and honestly think about how much more it would hurt if your baby died because you consented to having it killed then to it dying cause it was too small or something like that

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • CherryRipplepuffs wrote:

      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:

      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Though if the baby is going to die anyway, why kill it? Why not give it at least a chance to live? You never know, there could be a miracle.
      The only excuse I can give is the emotional trauma of holding your child who you'll never meet. Never comfort. Never see their smile. Never have the joy of raising. Even if it has that 0.01% chance of surviving (I say .01 because if the obstetrician already said/saw so, it's super unprobable), the 99.9% chance of holding your dead baby is so awful. You'd be scarred for life if that ever happens; you might never even have a child again. That's the only refute I can think of. 
      Your baby dying is awful. From abortion or just a miscarriage it is not good. You will scarred either way. I know someone who had 3 miscarriages before having a child. (can y'all pray for her btw, her husband passed about a year ago and she her son isn't even 2). And I know someone young who had a miscarriage and she was devastated. What evelina said is true. Seeing your dead child might be too much, but if there is even the smallest chance of it living, I wouldn't want to abort it

      Yeah, y'all are right. It's better to give the child a chance rather than letting them die at your own hand. 

        Loading editor
    • Just curious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?

      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.

      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • 64.114.223.138 wrote:

      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.

      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. Any killing is inhumane, and even if a person raped or murdered someone else, killing them just puts more death into the world...

        Loading editor
    • MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      64.114.223.138 wrote:

      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.
      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. Any killing is inhumane, and even if a person raped or murdered someone else, killing them just puts more death into the world...

      But if killing is inhumane, than why do people kill innocent babies before they can be born?

      (sorry, I just needed to say that. I'm still revvied up about the whole abortion thing.)

        Loading editor
    • 64.114.223.138 wrote:
      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.
      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, but what if you not killing that murderer causes the murderer to kill more people? Would you rather end their life and possibly save a lot more lives, or let the murderer keep living but possibly risk them killing more people? Capital punishment is just, even if the idea of killing someone seems extreme they can't be doing what they're doing - they're literally killing people. 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:

      MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      64.114.223.138 wrote:

      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.
      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. Any killing is inhumane, and even if a person raped or murdered someone else, killing them just puts more death into the world...

      But if killing is inhumane, than why do people kill innocent babies before they can be born?

      (sorry, I just needed to say that. I'm still revvied up about the whole abortion thing.)

      Growing another person inside of you is serious work that some people just can't handle.

      I wish there were more humane processes for abortion or a way to know about pregnancy exactly when it started, before the baby's heart has started beating, because I do believe that in some cases, abortion is necessary healthcare and it would be viewed that way if there weren't so much stigma against it. I understand your view, though.

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
      MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      64.114.223.138 wrote:


      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.
      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. Any killing is inhumane, and even if a person raped or murdered someone else, killing them just puts more death into the world...
      But if killing is inhumane, than why do people kill innocent babies before they can be born?

      (sorry, I just needed to say that. I'm still revvied up about the whole abortion thing.)

      Exactly. Those babies are innocent. Do you want to kill the precious babies who are going to be the next generation and could possibly grow up to do something great, or kill the people or murderdering inoccent others?

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      64.114.223.138 wrote:

      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.
      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. Any killing is inhumane, and even if a person raped or murdered someone else, killing them just puts more death into the world...

      Then, like Chicken Tornado said, why do you support abortion? That's also just bringing more murder into the world. And what if killing that murderer means a lot of lives saved that that murderer would have taken? 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • Chicken tornado wrote:
      MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      64.114.223.138 wrote:


      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.
      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. Any killing is inhumane, and even if a person raped or murdered someone else, killing them just puts more death into the world...
      But if killing is inhumane, than why do people kill innocent babies before they can be born?

      (sorry, I just needed to say that. I'm still revvied up about the whole abortion thing.)

      I agree with this. How can you be ok with killing babies but you'd want to let a murderer live? 

      I don't really like capital punishment either, but if the person just keeps killing people and won't change no matter how they are punished, then they are bringing it on themselves.

        Loading editor
    • If you kill someone for killing someone else, the cycle will repeat. It doesn't make sense to me and, every life is valued, even sinners. God says to love your neighbors. We need to show the criminals that there's another way to solve issues instead of saying that murder is okay. That's what I think.

        Loading editor
    • RaeWood739 wrote:
      If you kill someone for killing someone else, the cycle will repeat. It doesn't make sense to me and, every life is valued, even sinners. God says to love your neighbors. We need to show the criminals that there's another way to solve issues instead of saying that murder is okay. That's what I think.

      Hmm, I kinda get what you're saying. But I wouldn't say we're telling criminals that murder is ok.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      64.114.223.138 wrote:


      TheCharmingBookworm wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Just cutious: What are you guy's thoughts on capital punishment?
      It depends on the crime. For me, I suppose murder and rape are pretty deserving of it. Though I haven't really thought about it much, so my opinion might change at some point. I do believe that it should be as humane as possible.
      I personally think it’s wrong. If you kill someone for murdering someone else, you’re just putting more death into the world.

      I think prison is better, even if someone does commit a crime like murder or rape.

      -Chloe

      Agreed. Any killing is inhumane, and even if a person raped or murdered someone else, killing them just puts more death into the world...
      But if killing is inhumane, than why do people kill innocent babies before they can be born?

      (sorry, I just needed to say that. I'm still revvied up about the whole abortion thing.)

      I agree with this. How can you be ok with killing babies but you'd want to let a murderer live? 

      I don't really like capital punishment either, but if the person just keeps killing people and won't change no matter how they are punished, then they are bringing it on themselves.

      Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • 108.12.254.38 wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Hey guys, I'm a Christian, and I think It's super cool that there's a debate thread on here!

      My thoughts on abortion: 



      If the pregnancy was consetual, yet out of wedlock

      I get it. It should be the "Woman's choice" right? "My body, my choice." Yes, your body may be affected by a prgnancy, but the child inside isn't "your body".  It's a whole different, living, breathing organism that is so much more than a just a clump of cells. If you arent married, yet you're old enough to raise the child, and not be hurt by the pregnancy, than you have no excuse, other than your laziness. And for those feminists, who insist that abortions "empower" women, think about this: Doesn't the aborion benefit the man, instead of the woman? If you choose not to have the child, then the man gets off without any responsability, and can keep benefiting from the night time "events" of your relationship, consequence free. How is that fair?

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      If it was consentual, and you are married:

      Why. Would. You. Do. That? The only thing that maight make the woman concider an abortion (or at least the only reason I can think of) is that they simply don't want the hassle of having a kid. If so: shame on you. You would rather kill an innocent baby than go through a little discomfort? An argument might be made that the family is struggling financially, and wouldn't be able to sufficiently support the child.  This doesn't make sense to me, because the government has systems that support the baby through it's childhood, and again, adoption is always an option.

      If the baby isn't going to make it anyway, or is disabled to the point where it would be more painful to be alive:

      This is the one time that I believe abortion is acceptable. It's not only acceptable, but supportable, because it's for the better of the child. 

      On the topic of young pregnancies:

      This is a valid point, but I believe that it's over stated a lot. When a girl gets periods, that is a sign that their bodies are capable of giving birth. This happens around 12, 13 years old. However, I don't think that age has anything to do with it, as much as the development of the girl's body. A 12 year old could be below the average weight/hieght, and still have started having periods. In that case, an abortion would only be acceptable if it was the only way for the girl to live. 

      All together:

      In most cases, abortions are unneeded, if not selfish. In some places in the U.S., abotions are allowed up till one day before delivery. That means a fully developed baby, being slaughtered at the mother's selfish actions. I just can't wrap my head around that.  When I researched abortion, to see how it was done, I found that tmost of the ways the abortions were performed were inhumane and painful for the child. This nearly convinced me to be pro-life. But what really did it was the fact that having an abortion for any reason other than 'it would put the child out of it's misery' is weakness and laziness in it's purest form. Who would murder a child just to keep thing simple for themselves? 



      Okay so I'm done with my rant. I want so say that i did read all of the posts above, and apreciate the fact that everyone here is willing to share their opinions without it getting heated. If you have any refuting arguments to any of my points I'd love to hear them! 

      An abortion a day before delivery is definitely cruel and far too late. Depending on the circumstance, 3-4 months into the pregnancy is far more reasonable.

      If the kid was concieved just because the couple forgot to use protection and are married, adults, gave consent, and just don't want a kid, then they shouldn't just kill the baby because they don't want it - they could put it up for adoption.

      But if the pregnancy's a danger to either the mother or the baby's health, and abortion would ease the suffering of both of them, then it's a wise choice.

      Overall, I believe abortion is not selfish in many circumstances, unless it's a case where a mother aborts at 8 months pregnant or gets rid of the baby just because she suddenly decides she doesn't want to raise a kid.




      -cress

      So what you're saying is that since the baby is life threatening you would kill it - the murderer is ALSO life threatening, and is intentionally doing it, killing more than one person, and doing it with every understanding of what they're doing, knowing the consequences and yet STILL doing it - but they should be allowed to live because.... murder is wrong? 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, and it can completely destroy someone else's health! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it is so selfish for a mother to care so much about her health that she would murder her own child. There could be a few cases where having a child could maybe be dangerous to a mother's health, but most of the time it's not and people are just KILLING INNOCENT BABIES! These are people here! No matter what the situation, a parent should NEVER kill their own child.

      https://www.humancoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/a-persons-a-person-no-matter-how-small.png

      ​​​​​​​NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:

      Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, and it can completely destroy someone else's health! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it is so selfish for a mother to care so much about her health that she would murder her own child. There could be a few cases where having a child could maybe be dangerous to a mother's health, but most of the time it's not and people are just KILLING INNOCENT BABIES! These are people here! No matter what the situation, a parent should NEVER kill their own child.

      https://www.humancoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/a-persons-a-person-no-matter-how-small.png

      ​​​​​​​NinjaTeddyBear

      I don't think it's selfish. If I were carrying a baby that would threaten my health, I'd abort it. And it's not like mothers who have to abort babies due the baby's health or her health are happy about it, either. When my aunt got an abortion, she and my uncle were literally so devestated that my grandma came to visit for whole month from across the country.

      And also, mental health is a thing in this, too. If you were having a baby you didn't want to have, it would affect your mental health.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • Um... so would getting an abortion. That would probably affect your mental health more than having the baby...

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, and it can completely destroy someone else's health! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it is so selfish for a mother to care so much about her health that she would murder her own child. There could be a few cases where having a child could maybe be dangerous to a mother's health, but most of the time it's not and people are just KILLING INNOCENT BABIES! These are people here! No matter what the situation, a parent should NEVER kill their own child.

      https://www.humancoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/a-persons-a-person-no-matter-how-small.png

      ​​​​​​​NinjaTeddyBear

      I don't think it's selfish. If I were carrying a baby that would threaten my health, I'd abort it. And it's not like mothers who have to abort babies due the baby's health or her health are happy about it, either. When my aunt got an abortion, she and my uncle were literally so devestated that my grandma came to visit for whole month from across the country.

      And also, mental health is a thing in this, too. If you were having a baby you didn't want to have, it would affect your mental health.

      -Chloe

      I would say that the life of a child is more valuable than your mental health. Your mental health can recover. Your child won't.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • The child can easily be put up for adoption.

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:

      I would say that the life of a child is more valuable than your mental health. Your mental health can recover. Your child won't.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I wouldn't say "Your mental health can recover" since that's most definitely not true. You can't just recover from depression/suicide/any other mental disorder. If you have a mental disorder and a child, I would assume that one of them isn't going to make it. I guess it all depends on the mother who stays.

        Loading editor
    • Guys, we're talking about living human beings, people, being killed. There is no reason abortion should be considered a good option. I'm sorry if the mother has to suffer because of her baby, but does that justify her doing wrong? Please answer the question.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, and it can completely destroy someone else's health! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it is so selfish for a mother to care so much about her health that she would murder her own child. There could be a few cases where having a child could maybe be dangerous to a mother's health, but most of the time it's not and people are just KILLING INNOCENT BABIES! These are people here! No matter what the situation, a parent should NEVER kill their own child.

      https://www.humancoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/a-persons-a-person-no-matter-how-small.png

      ​​​​​​​NinjaTeddyBear

      I don't think it's selfish. If I were carrying a baby that would threaten my health, I'd abort it. And it's not like mothers who have to abort babies due the baby's health or her health are happy about it, either. When my aunt got an abortion, she and my uncle were literally so devestated that my grandma came to visit for whole month from across the country.

      And also, mental health is a thing in this, too. If you were having a baby you didn't want to have, it would affect your mental health.

      -Chloe

      It also affects your mental health if you know that your child died at your own hand.

      I think I said this earlier, but I know someone who had an abortion and struggled with lots of depression and guilt afterwards. It's so selfish to kill a baby simply because you don't want it.

      What's more important here? Your child's life (regardless of whether it was accidental) or your selfish wants?

        Loading editor
    • If the child's life is accidental, she/he can easily be put up for adoption, I assume it would affect your mental health because of the need to take care of it, but you wouldn't have to take care of it if it's just put up for adoption, and it wouldn't affect your mental health knowing that your child died because it wouldn't have died at your own hand if it was put up for adoption.

        Loading editor
    • Hermabeth Foster wrote:
      If the child's life is accidental, she/he can easily be put up for adoption, I assume it would affect your mental health because of the need to take care of it, but you wouldn't have to take care of it if it's just put up for adoption, and it would affect your mental health knowing that your child died because it wouldn't have died at your own hand if it was put up for adoption.

      Yeah, I agree.

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, and it can completely destroy someone else's health! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it is so selfish for a mother to care so much about her health that she would murder her own child. There could be a few cases where having a child could maybe be dangerous to a mother's health, but most of the time it's not and people are just KILLING INNOCENT BABIES! These are people here! No matter what the situation, a parent should NEVER kill their own child.

      https://www.humancoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/a-persons-a-person-no-matter-how-small.png

      ​​​​​​​NinjaTeddyBear

      I don't think it's selfish. If I were carrying a baby that would threaten my health, I'd abort it. And it's not like mothers who have to abort babies due the baby's health or her health are happy about it, either. When my aunt got an abortion, she and my uncle were literally so devestated that my grandma came to visit for whole month from across the country.

      And also, mental health is a thing in this, too. If you were having a baby you didn't want to have, it would affect your mental health.

      -Chloe

      I would say that the life of a child is more valuable than your mental health. Your mental health can recover. Your child won't.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      "Your mental health can recover"? That's...not how it works. It's physically impossible to "just recover" from depression/suicide. And some people cannot have kids because it takes such a toll on their mental health that they don't recover. That's reason enough, and besides, it puts the kid at even higher risk since many mental illnesses are genetic.

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      108.12.254.38 wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Hey guys, I'm a Christian, and I think It's super cool that there's a debate thread on here!

      My thoughts on abortion: 



      If the pregnancy was consetual, yet out of wedlock

      I get it. It should be the "Woman's choice" right? "My body, my choice." Yes, your body may be affected by a prgnancy, but the child inside isn't "your body".  It's a whole different, living, breathing organism that is so much more than a just a clump of cells. If you arent married, yet you're old enough to raise the child, and not be hurt by the pregnancy, than you have no excuse, other than your laziness. And for those feminists, who insist that abortions "empower" women, think about this: Doesn't the aborion benefit the man, instead of the woman? If you choose not to have the child, then the man gets off without any responsability, and can keep benefiting from the night time "events" of your relationship, consequence free. How is that fair?

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      If it was consentual, and you are married:

      Why. Would. You. Do. That? The only thing that maight make the woman concider an abortion (or at least the only reason I can think of) is that they simply don't want the hassle of having a kid. If so: shame on you. You would rather kill an innocent baby than go through a little discomfort? An argument might be made that the family is struggling financially, and wouldn't be able to sufficiently support the child.  This doesn't make sense to me, because the government has systems that support the baby through it's childhood, and again, adoption is always an option.

      If the baby isn't going to make it anyway, or is disabled to the point where it would be more painful to be alive:

      This is the one time that I believe abortion is acceptable. It's not only acceptable, but supportable, because it's for the better of the child. 

      On the topic of young pregnancies:

      This is a valid point, but I believe that it's over stated a lot. When a girl gets periods, that is a sign that their bodies are capable of giving birth. This happens around 12, 13 years old. However, I don't think that age has anything to do with it, as much as the development of the girl's body. A 12 year old could be below the average weight/hieght, and still have started having periods. In that case, an abortion would only be acceptable if it was the only way for the girl to live. 

      All together:

      In most cases, abortions are unneeded, if not selfish. In some places in the U.S., abotions are allowed up till one day before delivery. That means a fully developed baby, being slaughtered at the mother's selfish actions. I just can't wrap my head around that.  When I researched abortion, to see how it was done, I found that tmost of the ways the abortions were performed were inhumane and painful for the child. This nearly convinced me to be pro-life. But what really did it was the fact that having an abortion for any reason other than 'it would put the child out of it's misery' is weakness and laziness in it's purest form. Who would murder a child just to keep thing simple for themselves? 



      Okay so I'm done with my rant. I want so say that i did read all of the posts above, and apreciate the fact that everyone here is willing to share their opinions without it getting heated. If you have any refuting arguments to any of my points I'd love to hear them! 

      An abortion a day before delivery is definitely cruel and far too late. Depending on the circumstance, 3-4 months into the pregnancy is far more reasonable.

      If the kid was concieved just because the couple forgot to use protection and are married, adults, gave consent, and just don't want a kid, then they shouldn't just kill the baby because they don't want it - they could put it up for adoption.

      But if the pregnancy's a danger to either the mother or the baby's health, and abortion would ease the suffering of both of them, then it's a wise choice.

      Overall, I believe abortion is not selfish in many circumstances, unless it's a case where a mother aborts at 8 months pregnant or gets rid of the baby just because she suddenly decides she doesn't want to raise a kid.




      -cress

      So what you're saying is that since the baby is life threatening you would kill it - the murderer is ALSO life threatening, and is intentionally doing it, killing more than one person, and doing it with every understanding of what they're doing, knowing the consequences and yet STILL doing it - but they should be allowed to live because.... murder is wrong? 

      -Black Panther 

      Sorry for not being more clear.

      I'm trying to say that telling a murderer you're going to kill them just gives them more reason to think that they've done nothing wrong, which is the opposite of the thing you're trying to do. Killing a murderer would make them think murder is okay.



      Abortion of a very young fetus is far more of healthcare than murder.

      If a baby's health is in definite danger anyway or if it is dangerous to the mother's health (mental or physical), abortion is more than okay.

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, and it can completely destroy someone else's health! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it is so selfish for a mother to care so much about her health that she would murder her own child. There could be a few cases where having a child could maybe be dangerous to a mother's health, but most of the time it's not and people are just KILLING INNOCENT BABIES! These are people here! No matter what the situation, a parent should NEVER kill their own child.

      https://www.humancoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/a-persons-a-person-no-matter-how-small.png

      ​​​​​​​NinjaTeddyBear

      I don't think it's selfish. If I were carrying a baby that would threaten my health, I'd abort it. And it's not like mothers who have to abort babies due the baby's health or her health are happy about it, either. When my aunt got an abortion, she and my uncle were literally so devestated that my grandma came to visit for whole month from across the country.

      And also, mental health is a thing in this, too. If you were having a baby you didn't want to have, it would affect your mental health.

      -Chloe

      It also affects your mental health if you know that your child died at your own hand.

      I think I said this earlier, but I know someone who had an abortion and struggled with lots of depression and guilt afterwards. It's so selfish to kill a baby simply because you don't want it.

      What's more important here? Your child's life (regardless of whether it was accidental) or your selfish wants?

      Killing a baby just because you "don't want it" is a bit selfish, and that's why adoption exists. 

      But just because aborting a baby isn't wise in many situations, it's important in others. Yes, I can imagine why you'd be guilty. But your health is not a "selfish want". 

      I try to advocate for there to always be a choice because it's a choice and the wise choice would be to know when or not it's necessary. I understand why people are against it, but in some situations, it IS necessary. Besides, just because you'd never choose to abort a baby doesn't mean you can stop others from making that choice, and just because you'd abort a baby if you had to doesn't mean you can force other people to. 

      Abortion is illegal in multiple states, and that's the thing that makes me most angry. Because if it's not allowed professionally, it's still going to happen illegally and unsafely somehow. 

        Loading editor
    • 108.12.254.38 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      108.12.254.38 wrote:
      Chicken tornado wrote:
      Hey guys, I'm a Christian, and I think It's super cool that there's a debate thread on here!

      My thoughts on abortion: 



      If the pregnancy was consetual, yet out of wedlock

      I get it. It should be the "Woman's choice" right? "My body, my choice." Yes, your body may be affected by a prgnancy, but the child inside isn't "your body".  It's a whole different, living, breathing organism that is so much more than a just a clump of cells. If you arent married, yet you're old enough to raise the child, and not be hurt by the pregnancy, than you have no excuse, other than your laziness. And for those feminists, who insist that abortions "empower" women, think about this: Doesn't the aborion benefit the man, instead of the woman? If you choose not to have the child, then the man gets off without any responsability, and can keep benefiting from the night time "events" of your relationship, consequence free. How is that fair?

      If It was rape, and you are old enough to have a healthy pregnancy

      Yes, it might be difficult, but the fact remains that aboting your child is murder, regardless of if you're christian or not. As a lot of people have said, if the child is unwanted, giving it up for adoption or to a foster system is a good option. 

      If it was consentual, and you are married:

      Why. Would. You. Do. That? The only thing that maight make the woman concider an abortion (or at least the only reason I can think of) is that they simply don't want the hassle of having a kid. If so: shame on you. You would rather kill an innocent baby than go through a little discomfort? An argument might be made that the family is struggling financially, and wouldn't be able to sufficiently support the child.  This doesn't make sense to me, because the government has systems that support the baby through it's childhood, and again, adoption is always an option.

      If the baby isn't going to make it anyway, or is disabled to the point where it would be more painful to be alive:

      This is the one time that I believe abortion is acceptable. It's not only acceptable, but supportable, because it's for the better of the child. 

      On the topic of young pregnancies:

      This is a valid point, but I believe that it's over stated a lot. When a girl gets periods, that is a sign that their bodies are capable of giving birth. This happens around 12, 13 years old. However, I don't think that age has anything to do with it, as much as the development of the girl's body. A 12 year old could be below the average weight/hieght, and still have started having periods. In that case, an abortion would only be acceptable if it was the only way for the girl to live. 

      All together:

      In most cases, abortions are unneeded, if not selfish. In some places in the U.S., abotions are allowed up till one day before delivery. That means a fully developed baby, being slaughtered at the mother's selfish actions. I just can't wrap my head around that.  When I researched abortion, to see how it was done, I found that tmost of the ways the abortions were performed were inhumane and painful for the child. This nearly convinced me to be pro-life. But what really did it was the fact that having an abortion for any reason other than 'it would put the child out of it's misery' is weakness and laziness in it's purest form. Who would murder a child just to keep thing simple for themselves? 



      Okay so I'm done with my rant. I want so say that i did read all of the posts above, and apreciate the fact that everyone here is willing to share their opinions without it getting heated. If you have any refuting arguments to any of my points I'd love to hear them! 

      An abortion a day before delivery is definitely cruel and far too late. Depending on the circumstance, 3-4 months into the pregnancy is far more reasonable.

      If the kid was concieved just because the couple forgot to use protection and are married, adults, gave consent, and just don't want a kid, then they shouldn't just kill the baby because they don't want it - they could put it up for adoption.

      But if the pregnancy's a danger to either the mother or the baby's health, and abortion would ease the suffering of both of them, then it's a wise choice.

      Overall, I believe abortion is not selfish in many circumstances, unless it's a case where a mother aborts at 8 months pregnant or gets rid of the baby just because she suddenly decides she doesn't want to raise a kid.




      -cress

      So what you're saying is that since the baby is life threatening you would kill it - the murderer is ALSO life threatening, and is intentionally doing it, killing more than one person, and doing it with every understanding of what they're doing, knowing the consequences and yet STILL doing it - but they should be allowed to live because.... murder is wrong? 

      -Black Panther 

      Sorry for not being more clear.

      I'm trying to say that telling a murderer you're going to kill them just gives them more reason to think that they've done nothing wrong, which is the opposite of the thing you're trying to do. Killing a murderer would make them think murder is okay.



      Abortion of a very young fetus is far more of healthcare than murder.

      If a baby's health is in definite danger anyway or if it is dangerous to the mother's health (mental or physical), abortion is more than okay.

      I'm sorry... that just sounded a little more ridiculous to me. 1) that murderer won't be alive anymore to murder, and they will likely also understand WHY they're being killed 2) no, killing a murderer it health care, you iknow, like, LIFE care? That murderer is going to keep killing

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 108.12.254.38 wrote:
      MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, and it can completely destroy someone else's health! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it is so selfish for a mother to care so much about her health that she would murder her own child. There could be a few cases where having a child could maybe be dangerous to a mother's health, but most of the time it's not and people are just KILLING INNOCENT BABIES! These are people here! No matter what the situation, a parent should NEVER kill their own child.

      https://www.humancoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/a-persons-a-person-no-matter-how-small.png

      ​​​​​​​NinjaTeddyBear

      I don't think it's selfish. If I were carrying a baby that would threaten my health, I'd abort it. And it's not like mothers who have to abort babies due the baby's health or her health are happy about it, either. When my aunt got an abortion, she and my uncle were literally so devestated that my grandma came to visit for whole month from across the country.

      And also, mental health is a thing in this, too. If you were having a baby you didn't want to have, it would affect your mental health.

      -Chloe

      It also affects your mental health if you know that your child died at your own hand.

      I think I said this earlier, but I know someone who had an abortion and struggled with lots of depression and guilt afterwards. It's so selfish to kill a baby simply because you don't want it.

      What's more important here? Your child's life (regardless of whether it was accidental) or your selfish wants?

      Killing a baby just because you "don't want it" is a bit selfish, and that's why adoption exists. 

      But just because aborting a baby isn't wise in many situations, it's important in others. Yes, I can imagine why you'd be guilty. But your health is not a "selfish want". 

      I try to advocate for there to always be a choice because it's a choice and the wise choice would be to know when or not it's necessary. I understand why people are against it, but in some situations, it IS necessary. Besides, just because you'd never choose to abort a baby doesn't mean you can stop others from making that choice, and just because you'd abort a baby if you had to doesn't mean you can force other people to. 

      Abortion is illegal in multiple states, and that's the thing that makes me most angry. Because if it's not allowed professionally, it's still going to happen illegally and unsafely somehow. 

      It IS selfish, because they're choosing their health over their innocent, helpless child. What if that baby wants their  health? They can't exactly say anything about it. Just because babies don't have a voice, can't stand up for themselves, doesn't mean they're not people. Stop treating them like they aren't. 

      "We speak for the trees. Let them grow." - Dr. Seuss

      "A person's a person, no matter how small." - Dr. Seuss

      Guys, abortion isn't just some small, simple thing. You are taking the life of a living human​​​​​​It is in no case ever ​​​​​​​the right thing to do. We've been telling you over and over that this is murder. What if the person was a 3 year old? What if their existance somehow threatened your life? Or they had something wrong with them that would make their life hard? Should we just kill them? Seriously, this is no different than killing a child who has yet to be born. You know, children can be aborted right up to before they are born. I don't think you really understand just how terrible abortion is. You know how there's a movie called Unplanned? My mom doesn't even want me to see it. That's how bad abortion is.

      Black Panther and NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • I think that abortion is okay. I know we're talking about a life, but what about the mother's life? It could affect her physical and mental health.

      First of all, giving birth is really painful. Why would you force a woman through that, to give birth to a baby they didn't want, and was not consental? There are so many complications that could happen, especailly if you are at a young age.

      Second of all, depression and anxiety disorders are becoming more and more common today. So, imagine if you already had depression before you were stuck having to carry a baby unwillingly made inside you. That's more than enough to push any girl over the edge. It's hard to come back from depression, and while there are things you can do to help your anxiety disorder, it doesn't go away, so your mental health can't just get better.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      108.12.254.38 wrote:
      MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      Like Cress said, getting an abortion can be important to your health.

      You don't have to kill criminals. Another option would be prison.

      -Chloe

      Yeah, and it can completely destroy someone else's health! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it is so selfish for a mother to care so much about her health that she would murder her own child. There could be a few cases where having a child could maybe be dangerous to a mother's health, but most of the time it's not and people are just KILLING INNOCENT BABIES! These are people here! No matter what the situation, a parent should NEVER kill their own child.

      https://www.humancoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/a-persons-a-person-no-matter-how-small.png

      ​​​​​​​NinjaTeddyBear

      I don't think it's selfish. If I were carrying a baby that would threaten my health, I'd abort it. And it's not like mothers who have to abort babies due the baby's health or her health are happy about it, either. When my aunt got an abortion, she and my uncle were literally so devestated that my grandma came to visit for whole month from across the country.

      And also, mental health is a thing in this, too. If you were having a baby you didn't want to have, it would affect your mental health.

      -Chloe

      It also affects your mental health if you know that your child died at your own hand.

      I think I said this earlier, but I know someone who had an abortion and struggled with lots of depression and guilt afterwards. It's so selfish to kill a baby simply because you don't want it.

      What's more important here? Your child's life (regardless of whether it was accidental) or your selfish wants?

      Killing a baby just because you "don't want it" is a bit selfish, and that's why adoption exists. 

      But just because aborting a baby isn't wise in many situations, it's important in others. Yes, I can imagine why you'd be guilty. But your health is not a "selfish want". 

      I try to advocate for there to always be a choice because it's a choice and the wise choice would be to know when or not it's necessary. I understand why people are against it, but in some situations, it IS necessary. Besides, just because you'd never choose to abort a baby doesn't mean you can stop others from making that choice, and just because you'd abort a baby if you had to doesn't mean you can force other people to. 

      Abortion is illegal in multiple states, and that's the thing that makes me most angry. Because if it's not allowed professionally, it's still going to happen illegally and unsafely somehow. 

      It IS selfish, because they're choosing their health over their innocent, helpless child. What if that baby wants their  health? They can't exactly say anything about it. Just because babies don't have a voice, can't stand up for themselves, doesn't mean they're not people. Stop treating them like they aren't. 

      "We speak for the trees. Let them grow." - Dr. Seuss

      "A person's a person, no matter how small." - Dr. Seuss

      Guys, abortion isn't just some small, simple thing. You are taking the life of a living human​​​​​​It is in no case ever ​​​​​​​the right thing to do. We've been telling you over and over that this is murder. What if the person was a 3 year old? What if their existance somehow threatened your life? Or they had something wrong with them that would make their life hard? Should we just kill them? Seriously, this is no different than killing a child who has yet to be born. You know, children can be aborted right up to before they are born. I don't think you really understand just how terrible abortion is. You know how there's a movie called Unplanned? My mom doesn't even want me to see it. That's how bad abortion is.

      Black Panther and NinjaTeddyBear

      I agree with Black Panther and NinjaTeddyBear. If it's wrong to kill a three year old because it could threaten your health, why is it okay to kill a fetus simply because it isn't born yet?

      There isn't much of a difference. They are both living human beings, with a beating heart. They depend on their mother to help them live, so they can grow up and live their own lives.

      Somehow it's completely horrifying that a mother would kill a toddler because she doesn't want it. Yet it's perfectly fine to kill a fetus that is ALIVE because she doesn't want it.

      How is this fair at all?

        Loading editor
    • Also... someone said that abortion was more healthcare than murder.  So the commandment, "Do Not Murder," doesn't apply to babies?  Because I don't think that killing an innocent child is healthcare.

      You know what? If you are pro-choice, answer this question for me. Regardless of how the mother may feel, is abortion fair to the child? Because I think that all of you guys been focusing on the mother's health, not the child's.

      ​​​​​​​The baby is a human too, and deserves to live just as much as anyone else. ​​​​

        Loading editor
    • Abortion is illegal in multiple states, and that's the thing that makes me most angry. Because if it's not allowed professionally, it's still going to happen illegally and unsafely somehow. 

      The whole reason abortion is becoming illegal is because it is murder. The fact that people are so desperate to abort their babies that they would break the law is devastating to me. If it is allowed professionally, people are just going to keep killing their babies, a lot of them for selfish reasons. If it is illegal and people are that willing to break the law, then shame on them.

      Do these people not at all value their children's lives?

        Loading editor
    • ^ sorry if that didn't make any sense. I just didn't like the point that that person made.

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      I think that abortion is okay. I know we're talking about a life, but what about the mother's life? It could affect her physical and mental health.

      First of all, giving birth is really painful. Why would you force a woman through that, to give birth to a baby they didn't want, and was not consental? There are so many complications that could happen, especailly if you are at a young age.

      Second of all, depression and anxiety disorders are becoming more and more common today. So, imagine if you already had depression before you were stuck having to carry a baby unwillingly made inside you. That's more than enough to push any girl over the edge. It's hard to come back from depression, and while there are things you can do to help your anxiety disorder, it doesn't go away, so your mental health can't just get better.

      -Chloe

      The babie is a person too. The baby can't speak for themself but the mother is choosing herself over the baby. The baby can't say 'hey, I would really appreciate it if you didn't kill me' but they are alive​​​​​​​.

      I bet killing the baby is really painful too. You do know mothers can have internal bleeding and die from getting abortions because something went wrong, right? And okay they don't want it, 1) there's always adoption, maybe some other family could be super blessed by that baby, 2) They're pregnant for a reason, God allowed them to get pregnant so he has a plan for that child. 

      Yeah, so imagine you had drepression or anxiety before, then found out your pregnant, and then decided to kill your baby. And the doctors lie to you and say 'hey their not really alive, but then another person shows you that they ARE and you realize you just let people kill your child. Where's your mental health going to be THEN? 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      I think that abortion is okay. I know we're talking about a life, but what about the mother's life? It could affect her physical and mental health.

      First of all, giving birth is really painful. Why would you force a woman through that, to give birth to a baby they didn't want, and was not consental? There are so many complications that could happen, especailly if you are at a young age.

      Second of all, depression and anxiety disorders are becoming more and more common today. So, imagine if you already had depression before you were stuck having to carry a baby unwillingly made inside you. That's more than enough to push any girl over the edge. It's hard to come back from depression, and while there are things you can do to help your anxiety disorder, it doesn't go away, so your mental health can't just get better.

      -Chloe

      We're not just talking about the mother's life here! Besides, how often is it that a pregnancy affects a mother in a way that could be deadly? Right now we are looking at basically the worst case senarios. And even then, as a mother, the woman should care more about her child then her own life. And it really is selfish for her to choose herself over her child. This is how google defines selfish:

      self·ish

      /ˈselfiSH/

      adjective

      1. (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.


      Ok, yes, birth is painful, and no one looks forward to that part of a pregnancy. But it's not the baby's fault, so why does it have to deal with the consequences? Maybe you're in a situation where the mother and child are both innocent, niether of them made what happen happen. Are you still gonna make the baby pay the price? Why should someone that little and young be the one who deals with the consequenses? The mother is older. Even if she's a teen, or even younger, there are people who can help her through this.

      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • ^ exactly. I agree 100%

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear


      I'm sorry that this is off-topic and you may be offended, but saying "the reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives" is slightly offensive and incredibly insensitive.

      Yes, at times I am mildly depressed. No, I can't just solve that by "bringing God into my life". Just because someone doesn't share your mind doesn't mean that their life is meaningless. People don't just choose to be depressed, and you can't just cure depression with Christianity. Religion helps people, yes. It brings them together. It's a relationship with other people who share their beliefs, and I know that can be comforting. And if that works for you, that's great. But please stop telling me that I "need God". Two months ago, you repeatedly told me that you were trying to save me from going to hell. I know your intentions were good, but that just made my life a lot worse, falling into patterns of hating myself and wishing I could be different. And some people have it even worse - one of my best friends almost killed themself multiple times because of family members who repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said.

      I joined the Christian Keeper fans debates to look at different beliefs and understand more about what Christianity is about, because beforehand I knew nothing about it, but I didn't come to get into a heated argument, be told I that I'm a monster who supports murder (untrue), be (previously, not this particular thread) told I was a sinner who was going to hell, be told my life is meaningless or try to be converted to a religion I don't want to adhere to. Please stop trying to persuade me. I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing. I respect your beliefs and won't try to change them, but in turn for that, please don't try to change mine.

      I'm leaving this thread. For now. 

      Goodbye.



      -Cress

        Loading editor
    • notif. Bye guys :)

        Loading editor
    • 174.66.79.15 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.
      NinjaTeddyBear


      I'm sorry that this is off-topic and you may be offended, but saying "the reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives" is slightly offensive and incredibly insensitive.

      Yes, at times I am mildly depressed. No, I can't just solve that by "bringing God into my life". Just because someone doesn't share your mind doesn't mean that their life is meaningless. People don't just choose to be depressed, and you can't just cure depression with Christianity. Religion helps people, yes. It brings them together. It's a relationship with other people who share their beliefs, and I know that can be comforting. And if that works for you, that's great. But please stop telling me that I "need God". Two months ago, you repeatedly told me that you were trying to save me from going to hell. I know your intentions were good, but that just made my life a lot worse, falling into patterns of hating myself and wishing I could be different. And some people have it even worse - one of my best friends almost killed themself multiple times because of family members who repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said.

      I joined the Christian Keeper fans debates to look at different beliefs and understand more about what Christianity is about, because beforehand I knew nothing about it, but I didn't come to get into a heated argument, be told I that I'm a monster who supports murder (untrue), be (previously, not this particular thread) told I was a sinner who was going to hell, be told my life is meaningless or try to be converted to a religion I don't want to adhere to. Please stop trying to persuade me. I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing. I respect your beliefs and won't try to change them, but in turn for that, please don't try to change mine.

      I'm leaving this thread. For now. 

      Goodbye.



      -Cress

      Cress, I understand how you feel, and we didn't say because you don't have God in your life you are depressed, or that not having God in your life means you have to be depressed - if I said that, I didn't mean that - I meant most people are depressed because they have nothing left to live for. But obviously that's not the only reason you can get depressed. I'm sorry if I've been pushy about this. You aren't a terrible person. 'repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said' that is so untrue! The Bible doesn't say that you have to change the way you are or hate yourself, but it says to come as you are! Even Christians still sin (obviously) and make mistakes, but we are continuously forgiven. You can be forgiven too. It doesn't mean you're a terrible person. 

      I'm not saying that you DO support murder... but if you don't classify killing your baby as 'murder', then what is it exactly...? 

      'I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing.​​​​​​​' So... does that mean you believe 'seeing is believing'? Do you believe you have a soul? (maybe this isn't the best example XD sorry) If so, can you see your soul? I'm sorry Cress, I won't try and push my beliefs on you anymore.. I never meant for it to be like that in the first place... bye...

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 174.66.79.15 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.
      NinjaTeddyBear


      I'm sorry that this is off-topic and you may be offended, but saying "the reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives" is slightly offensive and incredibly insensitive.

      Yes, at times I am mildly depressed. No, I can't just solve that by "bringing God into my life". Just because someone doesn't share your mind doesn't mean that their life is meaningless. People don't just choose to be depressed, and you can't just cure depression with Christianity. Religion helps people, yes. It brings them together. It's a relationship with other people who share their beliefs, and I know that can be comforting. And if that works for you, that's great. But please stop telling me that I "need God". Two months ago, you repeatedly told me that you were trying to save me from going to hell. I know your intentions were good, but that just made my life a lot worse, falling into patterns of hating myself and wishing I could be different. And some people have it even worse - one of my best friends almost killed themself multiple times because of family members who repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said.

      I joined the Christian Keeper fans debates to look at different beliefs and understand more about what Christianity is about, because beforehand I knew nothing about it, but I didn't come to get into a heated argument, be told I that I'm a monster who supports murder (untrue), be (previously, not this particular thread) told I was a sinner who was going to hell, be told my life is meaningless or try to be converted to a religion I don't want to adhere to. Please stop trying to persuade me. I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing. I respect your beliefs and won't try to change them, but in turn for that, please don't try to change mine.

      I'm leaving this thread. For now. 

      Goodbye.



      -Cress

      I'm sorry Cress. I wasn't trying to make you hate yourself. I was trying to help. Sin and hell are real things, and so is God. I guess I was being really pushy. I'm sorry about that. I hope one day you do understand what I was trying to tell you, but for now, sorry for being forceful. I'll try not to be like that anymore, and if we ever get in a debate or argument, please just tell me when I'm doing too much. I'll try to leave you alone on this, unless you ask to talk about it or something.

      One thing I just wanted to clarify. Relationships with people are great things, but I meant a relationship with God when I said that Christianity was a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear 

        Loading editor
    • To the Christians on here, I feel like maybe we should rethink our debate threads, because we end up arguing a lot and it doesn't seem very helpful. I don't feel like this is doing any good. This isn't the best way to reach out to people.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:

      174.66.79.15 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.
      NinjaTeddyBear


      I'm sorry that this is off-topic and you may be offended, but saying "the reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives" is slightly offensive and incredibly insensitive.

      Yes, at times I am mildly depressed. No, I can't just solve that by "bringing God into my life". Just because someone doesn't share your mind doesn't mean that their life is meaningless. People don't just choose to be depressed, and you can't just cure depression with Christianity. Religion helps people, yes. It brings them together. It's a relationship with other people who share their beliefs, and I know that can be comforting. And if that works for you, that's great. But please stop telling me that I "need God". Two months ago, you repeatedly told me that you were trying to save me from going to hell. I know your intentions were good, but that just made my life a lot worse, falling into patterns of hating myself and wishing I could be different. And some people have it even worse - one of my best friends almost killed themself multiple times because of family members who repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said.

      I joined the Christian Keeper fans debates to look at different beliefs and understand more about what Christianity is about, because beforehand I knew nothing about it, but I didn't come to get into a heated argument, be told I that I'm a monster who supports murder (untrue), be (previously, not this particular thread) told I was a sinner who was going to hell, be told my life is meaningless or try to be converted to a religion I don't want to adhere to. Please stop trying to persuade me. I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing. I respect your beliefs and won't try to change them, but in turn for that, please don't try to change mine.

      I'm leaving this thread. For now. 

      Goodbye.



      -Cress

      Cress, I understand how you feel, and we didn't say because you don't have God in your life you are depressed, or that not having God in your life means you have to be depressed - if I said that, I didn't mean that - I meant most people are depressed because they have nothing left to live for. But obviously that's not the only reason you can get depressed. I'm sorry if I've been pushy about this. You aren't a terrible person. 'repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said' that is so untrue! The Bible doesn't say that you have to change the way you are or hate yourself, but it says to come as you are! Even Christians still sin (obviously) and make mistakes, but we are continuously forgiven. You can be forgiven too. It doesn't mean you're a terrible person. 

      I'm not saying that you DO support murder... but if you don't classify killing your baby as 'murder', then what is it exactly...? 

      'I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing.​​​​​​​' So... does that mean you believe 'seeing is believing'? Do you believe you have a soul? (maybe this isn't the best example XD sorry) If so, can you see your soul? I'm sorry Cress, I won't try and push my beliefs on you anymore.. I never meant for it to be like that in the first place... bye...

      -Black Panther 

      So since you know me you probably kinda know I'm not the best at leaving things.

      But I guess I don't believe I have a soul? I have a mind, but not really anything else. And I don't really think seeing is believing, since forces like gravity and stuff aren't visible but definitely exist.

      But you're right about people who are severely severely depressed often not feeling like they have anything to live for (TO ANYONE WHO HAS EVER FELT THIS WAY: PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM INACCURATE!).

      anyways, thanks :)

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:

      174.66.79.15 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.
      NinjaTeddyBear


      I'm sorry that this is off-topic and you may be offended, but saying "the reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives" is slightly offensive and incredibly insensitive.

      Yes, at times I am mildly depressed. No, I can't just solve that by "bringing God into my life". Just because someone doesn't share your mind doesn't mean that their life is meaningless. People don't just choose to be depressed, and you can't just cure depression with Christianity. Religion helps people, yes. It brings them together. It's a relationship with other people who share their beliefs, and I know that can be comforting. And if that works for you, that's great. But please stop telling me that I "need God". Two months ago, you repeatedly told me that you were trying to save me from going to hell. I know your intentions were good, but that just made my life a lot worse, falling into patterns of hating myself and wishing I could be different. And some people have it even worse - one of my best friends almost killed themself multiple times because of family members who repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said.

      I joined the Christian Keeper fans debates to look at different beliefs and understand more about what Christianity is about, because beforehand I knew nothing about it, but I didn't come to get into a heated argument, be told I that I'm a monster who supports murder (untrue), be (previously, not this particular thread) told I was a sinner who was going to hell, be told my life is meaningless or try to be converted to a religion I don't want to adhere to. Please stop trying to persuade me. I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing. I respect your beliefs and won't try to change them, but in turn for that, please don't try to change mine.

      I'm leaving this thread. For now. 

      Goodbye.



      -Cress

      I'm sorry Cress. I wasn't trying to make you hate yourself. I was trying to help. Sin and hell are real things, and so is God. I guess I was being really pushy. I'm sorry about that. I hope one day you do understand what I was trying to tell you, but for now, sorry for being forceful. I'll try not to be like that anymore, and if we ever get in a debate or argument, please just tell me when I'm doing too much. I'll try to leave you alone on this, unless you ask to talk about it or something.

      One thing I just wanted to clarify. Relationships with people are great things, but I meant a relationship with God when I said that Christianity was a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear 

      I understand - I would never believe you had bad intentions. I don't believe in hell or heaven, or God, but thanks. And I'm sorry for being forceful as well - I've gone too far way too many times, so please tell me when I do.

      thanks for clarifying :)

        Loading editor
    • MagicDaydreamer wrote:

      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      174.66.79.15 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.
      NinjaTeddyBear

      I'm sorry that this is off-topic and you may be offended, but saying "the reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives" is slightly offensive and incredibly insensitive.

      Yes, at times I am mildly depressed. No, I can't just solve that by "bringing God into my life". Just because someone doesn't share your mind doesn't mean that their life is meaningless. People don't just choose to be depressed, and you can't just cure depression with Christianity. Religion helps people, yes. It brings them together. It's a relationship with other people who share their beliefs, and I know that can be comforting. And if that works for you, that's great. But please stop telling me that I "need God". Two months ago, you repeatedly told me that you were trying to save me from going to hell. I know your intentions were good, but that just made my life a lot worse, falling into patterns of hating myself and wishing I could be different. And some people have it even worse - one of my best friends almost killed themself multiple times because of family members who repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said.

      I joined the Christian Keeper fans debates to look at different beliefs and understand more about what Christianity is about, because beforehand I knew nothing about it, but I didn't come to get into a heated argument, be told I that I'm a monster who supports murder (untrue), be (previously, not this particular thread) told I was a sinner who was going to hell, be told my life is meaningless or try to be converted to a religion I don't want to adhere to. Please stop trying to persuade me. I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing. I respect your beliefs and won't try to change them, but in turn for that, please don't try to change mine.

      I'm leaving this thread. For now. 

      Goodbye.



      -Cress

      Cress, I understand how you feel, and we didn't say because you don't have God in your life you are depressed, or that not having God in your life means you have to be depressed - if I said that, I didn't mean that - I meant most people are depressed because they have nothing left to live for. But obviously that's not the only reason you can get depressed. I'm sorry if I've been pushy about this. You aren't a terrible person. 'repeatedly told them that they had to change and hate themself to match what the Bible said' that is so untrue! The Bible doesn't say that you have to change the way you are or hate yourself, but it says to come as you are! Even Christians still sin (obviously) and make mistakes, but we are continuously forgiven. You can be forgiven too. It doesn't mean you're a terrible person. 

      I'm not saying that you DO support murder... but if you don't classify killing your baby as 'murder', then what is it exactly...? 

      'I've been told that enough and I just don't think I can put all my faith, logic, and will to do anything into something I can't see or hear or find any scientific evidence of existing.​​​​​​​' So... does that mean you believe 'seeing is believing'? Do you believe you have a soul? (maybe this isn't the best example XD sorry) If so, can you see your soul? I'm sorry Cress, I won't try and push my beliefs on you anymore.. I never meant for it to be like that in the first place... bye...

      -Black Panther 

      So since you know me you probably kinda know I'm not the best at leaving things.

      But I guess I don't believe I have a soul? I have a mind, but not really anything else. And I don't really think seeing is believing, since forces like gravity and stuff aren't visible but definitely exist.

      But you're right about people who are severely severely depressed often not feeling like they have anything to live for (TO ANYONE WHO HAS EVER FELT THIS WAY: PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM INACCURATE!).

      anyways, thanks :)

      Exactly! Gravity is a GREAT example! You can't see gravity, but you know its' there because of the effects it has on you! Sorry, Ik I said I wouoldn't push what I believe on you anymore, I just wnated to finish the example I knwo God exists because of the effects he has on me and people around me! You don't believe you have a soul? okay, ig that example wasn't the greatest anyways.. 

      (Yes plz correct if we're wrong) 

      You're welcome 

      -Black Pnather 

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:

      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I’m actually leaving the wiki for the holidays, but I’d just like to say I am not depressed because god isn’t in my life. No one that I’ve met that has been depressed has it been because god isn’t in their lives. I see that you are trying to share your view, but to me, although I know you mean otherwise, it feels like your saying I’m depressed because I’m not religious. Wich that is not the reason. Sorry if this is offensive, just depression is a subject I’m very opinionated on.

      Again, sorry if this was offensive.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • 64.114.223.138 wrote:

      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I’m actually leaving the wiki for the holidays, but I’d just like to say I am not depressed because god isn’t in my life. No one that I’ve met that has been depressed has it been because god isn’t in their lives. I see that you are trying to share your view, but to me, although I know you mean otherwise, it feels like your saying I’m depressed because I’m not religious. Wich that is not the reason. Sorry if this is offensive, just depression is a subject I’m very opinionated on.

      Again, sorry if this was offensive.

      -Chloe

      I'm not trying to say you're depressed if you're not religious. I just think some people get discouraged with life because they think they're missing something. Don't worry, it's not offensive. NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 64.114.223.138 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I’m actually leaving the wiki for the holidays, but I’d just like to say I am not depressed because god isn’t in my life. No one that I’ve met that has been depressed has it been because god isn’t in their lives. I see that you are trying to share your view, but to me, although I know you mean otherwise, it feels like your saying I’m depressed because I’m not religious. Wich that is not the reason. Sorry if this is offensive, just depression is a subject I’m very opinionated on.

      Again, sorry if this was offensive.

      -Chloe

      How do you know? Why are you depressed? Bye!  

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 64.114.223.138 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I’m actually leaving the wiki for the holidays, but I’d just like to say I am not depressed because god isn’t in my life. No one that I’ve met that has been depressed has it been because god isn’t in their lives. I see that you are trying to share your view, but to me, although I know you mean otherwise, it feels like your saying I’m depressed because I’m not religious. Wich that is not the reason. Sorry if this is offensive, just depression is a subject I’m very opinionated on.

      Again, sorry if this was offensive.

      -Chloe

      What they meant was that usually when people are depressed, it's because they have nothing to live for, and nothing to motivate them, like going to Heaven, for example. This wasn't meant to offend anyone, or say that their lives are meaningless.

      Not that I wrote it.

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      64.114.223.138 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I’m actually leaving the wiki for the holidays, but I’d just like to say I am not depressed because god isn’t in my life. No one that I’ve met that has been depressed has it been because god isn’t in their lives. I see that you are trying to share your view, but to me, although I know you mean otherwise, it feels like your saying I’m depressed because I’m not religious. Wich that is not the reason. Sorry if this is offensive, just depression is a subject I’m very opinionated on.

      Again, sorry if this was offensive.

      -Chloe

      How do you know? Why are you depressed? Bye!  

      -Black Panther 

      Because I know a couple people that are depressed, and I've talked to them about it. 

      I'm not going to say why ​​​​​​​I'm depressed here, because it's personal information, and I don't think I should have to validate my emotions with evidence. I understand being curious, and I'm sorry I can't tell you. Depression is hard to explain, and very complicated, and I don't like sharing details, because reliving the reasons why I'm depressed makes me really anxious.

      I don't think I'll be coming on these threads anymore actaully, because I don't think it's very good for my mental health, it either gets me worked up, or really sad, or both.

      I loved seeing your different veiws and opinions, but I'm going to have to say good bye.

      Again, sorry if it this was offensive!

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • My opinion on depression is not that it is automatically healed when you become a Christian. I actually know several Christians who have struggled with depression, BUT the difference with them is that the situation doesn't seem hopeless; they know that they can rely on God for comfort and support.

        Loading editor
    • Also... Cress and Chloe, I am so sorry if we were being too pushy. As Christians, we are to love our neighbors and the community, despite their different beliefs, and that is not what we were doing. I am really sorry if I offended anyone.

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      Also... Cress and Chloe, I am so sorry if we were being too pushy. As Christians, we are to love our neighbors and the community, despite their different beliefs, and that is not what we were doing. I am really sorry if I offended anyone.

      I feel like we need to rethink the debate threads because it seems like we are offending people.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • By the way, Chloe, I made something happen on the koltc life roleplay that involves your character. (I don't know how often you are checking it becuase we stopped being active for a few days and I thought you might be coming to this page a little bit more.)

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • whats up yall its your fellow christian))

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote: To the Christians on here, I feel like maybe we should rethink our debate threads, because we end up arguing a lot and it doesn't seem very helpful. I don't feel like this is doing any good. This isn't the best way to reach out to people.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I like the debate thread but not like it is now. I have a class where we actually debate things regarding our culture and Christianity. That is kinda how I saw this thread. We recently talked about abortion and civil disobedience. I want it to be like that. I want to keep this thread but in a kind manner. Maybe pick a topic, you can give your thoughts. And then ask people to explain their thoughts?

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I think explaining their reasoning is much better than just pushing that opinion forward. But I don't know.

        Loading editor
    • Hmm, yeah. Maybe we should have it that you can comment one main comment for what you think of a topic, and you can ask other people questions about their opinions. It doesn't have to be strictly like this, but it could help it a little.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I agree. Again, I am so sorry for being pushy. I didn't even realize that I was. I agree with NinjaTeddyBear that this is not a good way to reach the community. We aren't being very good examples of Jesus' love and compassion...

      So I do like what you guys are proposing. I enjoy debating on this thread and if we keep doing something similar, I will try to be more respectful of everyone's opinions.

        Loading editor
    • So do we all agree that we can still state our opinions/debate without being too pushy or direspectful?

        Loading editor
    • Yeah. That would be a lot better.

        Loading editor
    • Yes I totally agree. And I am deeply sorry if I hurt anyone or if I was being too pushy. I wasn't trying to be offensive and I'll definitely work on that it the future 

        Loading editor
    • 174.6.16.240 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      64.114.223.138 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I’m actually leaving the wiki for the holidays, but I’d just like to say I am not depressed because god isn’t in my life. No one that I’ve met that has been depressed has it been because god isn’t in their lives. I see that you are trying to share your view, but to me, although I know you mean otherwise, it feels like your saying I’m depressed because I’m not religious. Wich that is not the reason. Sorry if this is offensive, just depression is a subject I’m very opinionated on.

      Again, sorry if this was offensive.

      -Chloe

      How do you know? Why are you depressed? Bye!  

      -Black Panther 

      Because I know a couple people that are depressed, and I've talked to them about it. 

      I'm not going to say why ​​​​​​​I'm depressed here, because it's personal information, and I don't think I should have to validate my emotions with evidence. I understand being curious, and I'm sorry I can't tell you. Depression is hard to explain, and very complicated, and I don't like sharing details, because reliving the reasons why I'm depressed makes me really anxious.

      I don't think I'll be coming on these threads anymore actaully, because I don't think it's very good for my mental health, it either gets me worked up, or really sad, or both.

      I loved seeing your different veiws and opinions, but I'm going to have to say good bye.

      Again, sorry if it this was offensive!

      -Chloe

      I know people who are depressed too. It's not a good place to be in. 

      Yeah that makes sense. Sorry about that.. You know anxiety and depression are very different right? Depression is dwelling on the past, mistakes you've made and anxiety is dwelling on the future.  

      Okie... Aww I'm sorry if I've been pushy... 

      bye.... ! 

      No, it wasn't! 

      -Black Panher

        Loading editor
    • (back again)

      Yep, anxiety and depression are different. Depression is severe and continuous sadness and distress that often comes from either the past, post-traumatic stress disorder, or anxiety, and then anxiety is constant intense worry about current or future things. correct me if I'm wrong :)

        Loading editor
    • I can comment on the depression part at least. Yeah, it's sadness and lack of enthusiasm (numbness with the exception of loneliness basically) to everything around you. Like, you could be at homecoming (or whatever you have) and feel as if nothing matters at that moment even though you're surrounded by your friends. You don't want to enjoy stuff, even though you know it's for the better. You don't want to be cured, even though you know you should want it. It also causes severe lack of self-love, and makes you want to give up on everything a lot of the time. It's a conflicting feeling. 

        Loading editor
    • MagicDaydreamer wrote:
      (back again)

      Yep, anxiety and depression are different. Depression is severe and continuous sadness and distress that often comes from either the past, post-traumatic stress disorder, or anxiety, and then anxiety is constant intense worry about current or future things. correct me if I'm wrong :)

      Yeah that's what I was saying XD Just making sure she knew that cause it sounded like she was saying something else (:

      -Black Pnather

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      So do we all agree that we can still state our opinions/debate without being too pushy or direspectful?

      Sounds good. Sorry if I was disrespectful guys.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.23.158 wrote:
      174.6.16.240 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:
      64.114.223.138 wrote:
      72.205.23.158 wrote:

      The reason people are so depressed and all that today is because they don't have meaning in their lives. They need God, but they don't want Him. Christianity isn't religion. It's a relationship.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      I’m actually leaving the wiki for the holidays, but I’d just like to say I am not depressed because god isn’t in my life. No one that I’ve met that has been depressed has it been because god isn’t in their lives. I see that you are trying to share your view, but to me, although I know you mean otherwise, it feels like your saying I’m depressed because I’m not religious. Wich that is not the reason. Sorry if this is offensive, just depression is a subject I’m very opinionated on.

      Again, sorry if this was offensive.

      -Chloe

      How do you know? Why are you depressed? Bye!  

      -Black Panther 

      Because I know a couple people that are depressed, and I've talked to them about it. 

      I'm not going to say why ​​​​​​​I'm depressed here, because it's personal information, and I don't think I should have to validate my emotions with evidence. I understand being curious, and I'm sorry I can't tell you. Depression is hard to explain, and very complicated, and I don't like sharing details, because reliving the reasons why I'm depressed makes me really anxious.

      I don't think I'll be coming on these threads anymore actaully, because I don't think it's very good for my mental health, it either gets me worked up, or really sad, or both.

      I loved seeing your different veiws and opinions, but I'm going to have to say good bye.

      Again, sorry if it this was offensive!

      -Chloe

      I know people who are depressed too. It's not a good place to be in. 

      Yeah that makes sense. Sorry about that.. You know anxiety and depression are very different right? Depression is dwelling on the past, mistakes you've made and anxiety is dwelling on the future.  

      Okie... Aww I'm sorry if I've been pushy... 

      bye.... ! 

      No, it wasn't! 

      -Black Panher

      ((back because I have a spare mintue an im not good at giving up something even if its bad for me XD))

      Maybe a better way to word it is stressed? Although it does make me very worried that my depression might interfere with my future, or that I will never recover from my depression.

      I have an axiety disorder as well, so I know what anxiety is, but thanks, I didn't really word it properly.

      -Chloe

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I definitely get that. But just know this: You can do it. Rely on other people, cause they can help you through. You got this. Stress can feel like a lot but it will be okie. 

      Oh okie... Do you see a therapist for that at all? (if you don't want to answer that's fine)

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • Are we still talking about abortion?

      Doesn't seem like it.....

        Loading editor
    • Idk it was getting a lil heated but if u want to go back to that Ig we can

      -Black Panther (Ahsoka?)

        Loading editor
    • Yeah that's fine with me if we keep debating about that and I will be more careful about what I say

      but it also seems like we kept restating the same things. New subject maybe?

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      Yeah that's fine with me if we keep debating about that

      and I will be more careful about what I say

      but it also seems like we kept restating the same things. New subject maybe?

      Ok. Anyone have a topic?

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • Can't currently think of one.  Anyone else? 

        Loading editor
    • LGBTQ+ maybe? I don't know.

        Loading editor
    • ^ Ooh that's a good one

        Loading editor
    • TheCharmingBookworm wrote: LGBTQ+ maybe? I don't know.

      That is a very sensitive subject for a lot of people, so if we do it then we have to do it with as much respect as possible.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I tend to get super defensive when it gets to LGBTQ, so on second thought, I can seriously over-state my opinion. Maybe something less offensive?

        Loading editor
    • Yeah true. Maybe something less personal like...ok going out on a limb here so feel free to shoot me down, but maybe aliens?

        Loading editor
    • Ooh, that's interesting. Do christians have a different belief about aliens? Ugh that sounds like I'm mocking you, but I promise, I'm not. I'm super curious

        Loading editor
    • XD no I get it. Well I personally have never met any christians who REALLY believe in them, but I've heard it's kinda a hot button topic. So anyone on here who believes in them maybe say something? Sorry is this seems not thought out, I never realized how few debate topics there are I guess lol.

        Loading editor
    • Well, I don't really think aliens are real. The Bible only talks about God creating Earth and Jesus coming to save the world. Soooo... I feel that if the Bible doesn't say anything about it, then it's best to assume that it's not real.

        Loading editor
    • Just out of curiosity, do you believe that there is life outside of earth? Because I've read proof about other dimensions and realms and stuff like that.

        Loading editor
    • Hmmm... that's a good question. I'm not exactly sure what I think about that exactly, but I do know that what's important is earth, because that's the whole reason that Jesus had to die on the cross.

        Loading editor
    • I don't really think so. The Bible discusses God creating the Earth, and if he created other life on other planets, wouldn't it discuss that too?

        Loading editor
    • That's what I thought.

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      Just out of curiosity, do you believe that there is life outside of earth? Because I've read proof about other dimensions and realms and stuff like that.

      What do you mean, proof? Just curious :)

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      Just out of curiosity, do you believe that there is life outside of earth? Because I've read proof about other dimensions and realms and stuff like that.

      Ok, so I'm a Christian, and here's what I think about life outside of earth: If there is life outside of earth, it's not like "human" life. If there was, it could be some type of animal alien, but I seriously doubt that there's other intelligence like us out there. I say this because, like some of you have already said, Jesus came to earth to save us, and He didn't do that for any other planets. And also, if you think about earth and how it's perfectly desinged for us to have life, and how the other planets always are lacking stuff, it just doesn't seem very likely that there would be anything able to survive out there.

      I'm a little curious about your proof too. Keep in mind though, sometimes things that might seem like proof could just be a possibility over something we don't fully understand. For example, one of my science books for school I read a few years ago talked about how people thought that aliens were real because when they looked through their telescopes they thought they saw stuff that looked like there was water on the planet, and it was a big deal and everyone thought aliens were really living on other planets, but as telescopes got better and we learned more about it, it turned out that they weren't actually seeing water. (I don't remember what it really was, sorry!)

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • Maybe evolution?

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      Just out of curiosity, do you believe that there is life outside of earth? Because I've read proof about other dimensions and realms and stuff like that.
      What do you mean, proof? Just curious :)

      Sorry, kind of forgot about this! :( Here are some articles:

      https://arxiv.org/pdf/1704.03814.pdf Key quote: "Since the GAMA G23 line-of-sight shows no evidence of a CMB temperature decrement we conclude that the Cold Spot may have a primordial origin rather than being due to line-of-sight effects." (meaning, the Cold Spot started at the beginning of time)

      ​​​​​​​https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/parallel-universe-proof-multiverse-cold-spot-cosmic-microwave-background-cmb-a7743216.html

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/05/23/could-parallel-universes-be-physically-real/#4dbb6b64d3f6

      I'll try to get more when I get back home

        Loading editor
    • Oh I should probably add that this proves parallel universes, not aliens lol

        Loading editor
    • Interesting. Thank you!

        Loading editor
    • CherryRipplepuffs wrote:
      Maybe evolution?

      I like that topic, and I'm always curious to hear what people have to say about it. So yeah, that works for me. Anyone else?

        Loading editor
    • That works for me. So... Evolution. Honestly, I don't have a lot of proof and these are mostly theories. Adam and Eve were the first humans created by God. Their son Cain, eventually after killing Abel, went to the land of Nod, East of Eden. He found a wife there. How could he have found a wife there when he was a son of the first humans ever created. If she wasn't there, and no other human was there, if he wanted a wife he would've committed incest. So, sometimes I wonder if the woman he married had evolved from one of the animals God created--except the problem is that takes a long time, as in millions of years. Still, a topic later or never, I think the days in the first chapter of Genesis were actually many many years, and a "day" is just a way to write when it started and when it finished, explaining the whole big bang theory and other stuff that is not directly related to evolution. I digress. Back to the Non Adam-Eve descendants, perhaps they'd evolved in those million year gaps of time. But hey, that's just a theory, a...n  Evolution theory. Just remember that as Christians, we don't always have to think too much about the world's explanations,as long as we trust God. We can only understand so much if we only use our senses and are blind to God's. Sometimes, we just can't understand everything. Thought wouldn't hurt to understand some stuff.

      -Lady Sassyfur 

        Loading editor
    • 109.161.146.67 wrote:
      That works for me. So... Evolution. Honestly, I don't have a lot of proof and these are mostly theories. Adam and Eve were the first humans created by God. Their son Cain, eventually after killing Abel, went to the land of Nod, East of Eden. He found a wife there. How could he have found a wife there when he was a son of the first humans ever created. If she wasn't there, and no other human was there, if he wanted a wife he would've committed incest. So, sometimes I wonder if the woman he married had evolved from one of the animals God created--except the problem is that takes a long time, as in millions of years. Still, a topic later or never, I think the days in the first chapter of Genesis were actually many many years, and a "day" is just a way to write when it started and when it finished, explaining the whole big bang theory and other stuff that is not directly related to evolution. I digress. Back to the Non Adam-Eve descendants, perhaps they'd evolved in those million year gaps of time. But hey, that's just a theory, a...n  Evolution theory. Just remember that as Christians, we don't always have to think too much about the world's explanations,as long as we trust God. We can only understand so much if we only use our senses and are blind to God's. Sometimes, we just can't understand everything. Thought wouldn't hurt to understand some stuff.

      -Lady Sassyfur 

      No, the days in creation were just days. I was reading an Answer book by Ken Ham a year ago and there was a whole chapter about that. It said that the word used for day meant day, and it was used in other places in the Bible too, so if the days in Genesis were to mean more than a 24 hour day, then so would a bunch of other regular 24 hour days in the Bible.

      Anyway, Cain was probably married before he went to the land of Nod. The Bible doesn't say when he got married, just that he has a wife, but considering Adam and Eve were the only people on earth, Cain probably married one of their daughters. It actually says in Genesis 5:4 that they had other sons and daughters. 

      And as for humans evolving from animals, guys, that seriosuly doesn't make a lot of sense. It doesn't go with what we know from science either, and also, how would some animal change from an animal, gain intelligence, and end up a human? 

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • CherryRipplepuffs wrote:
      Maybe evolution?

      Sounds good to me. I love debating about this. Ok so first of all. How would humans evolve from say monkeys? It couldn't have been survival of the fittest, because monkeys already had more than enought strengths to survive without needing to evolve. In fact most of the changes to humans wouldn't have been beneficial to them at all, as they could climb to avoid predators, find food,etc.

        Loading editor
    • And as for humans evolving from animals, guys, that seriosuly doesn't make a lot of sense. It doesn't go with what we know from science either, and also, how would some animal change from an animal, gain intelligence, and end up a human? 

      NinjaTeddyBear

      Actually, it makes a lot of sense. First of all, I'm not in the slightest way saying that what you believe is false. It may completely be right and I just look like an idiot. Just putting that out there, since this is something that no one really knows about.

      Ok, now for the science part. We, humans, are homo sapiens sapiens. That's a fact. "how would some animal change from an animal, gain intelligence, and end up a human?" Well, the simple answer is evolution. Occasionally, a genetic variation gives one member of a species a different characteristic. It happens quite often (think of two parents with blue eyes who produce a child with brown eyes, though that's a really simple and generic example. A person who's born with autism from two parents who did not have autism  is a better example). That individual passes the gene onto its child(ren). More individuals with the new trait survive and pass it on to their descendents. Following this, an animal is clearly capable of producing offspring with a different kind of gene. When this new animal produces offspring, it now carries this new gene (and so on, and so on). If many beneficial traits spread over time, a new species evolves. That's a way a human can come out of (wrong choice of wording but I couldn't find anything better) an animal. 

      To clear something up (I've done a ton of research on this by the way), we did not evolve from monkeys, contradicting what many people believe (or don't). We may share a similar ancestor (from many millions of years ago), but we in absolutely no way came from monkeys.

      "Modern humans are the product of evolutionary processes that go back more than 3.5 billion years ago. We became human gradually, evolving new physical traits and behaviors on top of those inherited from earlier primates, mammals, vertebrates, and the very oldest living organisms."  –  Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History. 

      Yikes I wrote a lot. 

        Loading editor
    • Ok, yes, the offspring of people and animals aren't the same as thier parents. But the genes they are getting are from their parents. For example, a child being born from two brown eyed parents is because their parents both had a recessive gene and both parents gave the recessive gene to the child. That's not a new gene. 

      As time goes on, yes, children won't look a lot like their great-great-great-grandparents, and the same thing happens with animals. But that's not because they're getting new genes, they're just getting whatever genes their parents had. And the humans are still humans, and the animals are still animals. 

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • ^ Oof, I hope I don't sound mad or anything in that comment. 

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, that's true, but there had to have been interbreeding between many animals for humans to evolve. Yes, I get that's not how it works today, but 2,000,000 million years ago... well, we don't know. So no, a new gene cannot be produced from two parents of the same species, but rather from two different types. There are two main types of our ancestors: Homo heidelbergensis and Homo neanderthalensis. There is common debate that we came from either of these, but a new study concurred that there had to have been interbreeding between Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis (gosh these names get confusing) to produce the "modern" human. "Although the narratives of human evolution are often contentious, DNA evidence shows that human evolution should not be seen as a simple linear or branched progression, but a mix of related species. In fact, genomic research has shown that hybridization between substantially diverged lineages is the rule, not the exception, in human evolution."  

      No, you're fine lol

        Loading editor
    • Yikes Im not on here alot and i actually gtg work but Ill be back on here later to give a better response, but as for now:

      Actually we do know what happened a long time ago. "but 2,000,000 million years ago...."  Okay, i know alot of people believe that the earth existed that long ago, but even some major scientists are discovering that it inst possible for the earth to have existed that long ago. (Also, alot of scientist are becoming very unpopular for agreeing or acknowledging this. Like i said im in a rush i gtg soon but i can provide evidense when i come back). Can you provide any information for the Homo heidelbergensis stuff please? and what evidense you actually have thats got very stable proof for all of this? Not to be sounding harsh! I just want to see why you would believe that. I also have to ask if you've taken biolegy? I highly recomend Apologia Biology for studing facts such as this. In the book it gives you clear scientific proof and facts and evidence and what not on how this all works. It proves that humans did not evole from animals (it also explains how the whole evolution thing is actually found very wrong) and it also has a very great thing to clearify how the whole "two parents with brown eyes can have a child with blue eyes" thing. Thats they're genes, from their parents. I can better explain it when i can come on later, and i will have a much better response and better evidence (sorry). 

      I still have my apologia book with the facts and evidence and what not and I will be sure to bring that to maybe help explain what point (i think) NinjaTeddyBear is making. Has anyone else here done apologia? There is great information there that could really be used in this. 

      hope this doesnt sound sloppy or harsh, didnt mean to come of rude at all and im sorry about if it seemed like a bad response with poor evidence. Like ive stated im sorta in a rush im suppose to be working on HW right now but Ill be sure to do better later :)

      -Katniss

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I'm pretty sure we are both thinking about the same thing, Katniss. 

      Btw, Apologia has really good science books guys. I know many of you probably aren't interested, but seriously, it explains stuff pretty well.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • U know I've done apologia. The thing is the earth can't be billions of years old because (this is just one reason) there isn't enough salt in the ocean for that. Like Katniss and NinjaTeddyBear said genes being passed down aren't knew genes they  are the parents genes being passed down to the kids, the kids aren't going to look exactlyi the same as the parents but it has to do with what genes they got. My explanation probabliy would't make sense and I know NinjaTeddyBear will probably post something so yeah *goes away*

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      Yeah, that's true, but there had to have been interbreeding between many animals for humans to evolve. Yes, I get that's not how it works today, but 2,000,000 million years ago... well, we don't know. So no, a new gene cannot be produced from two parents of the same species, but rather from two different types. There are two main types of our ancestors: Homo heidelbergensis and Homo neanderthalensis. There is common debate that we came from either of these, but a new study concurred that there had to have been interbreeding between Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis (gosh these names get confusing) to produce the "modern" human. "Although the narratives of human evolution are often contentious, DNA evidence shows that human evolution should not be seen as a simple linear or branched progression, but a mix of related species. In fact, genomic research has shown that hybridization between substantially diverged lineages is the rule, not the exception, in human evolution."  

      No, you're fine lol

      Don't take this in an offensive way, but every time I hear about evolution, it seems like I'm always hearing a different story. Before it was that we came from apes, now we come from some other creature. 

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • OKay, I know that this is totally random. But I just had to say this.

      Evelina, kudos to you for being so respectful of everyone's opinions. I'm not saying that everyone else isn't, because you all are. I just think that you specifically are so kind and willing to listen. Thank you

        Loading editor
    • 173.72.133.129 wrote:
      Yikes Im not on here alot and i actually gtg work but Ill be back on here later to give a better response, but as for now:

      Actually we do know what happened a long time ago. "but 2,000,000 million years ago...."  Okay, i know alot of people believe that the earth existed that long ago, but even some major scientists are discovering that it inst possible for the earth to have existed that long ago. (Also, alot of scientist are becoming very unpopular for agreeing or acknowledging this. Like i said im in a rush i gtg soon but i can provide evidense when i come back). Can you provide any information for the Homo heidelbergensis stuff please? and what evidense you actually have thats got very stable proof for all of this? Not to be sounding harsh! I just want to see why you would believe that. I also have to ask if you've taken biolegy? I highly recomend Apologia Biology for studing facts such as this. In the book it gives you clear scientific proof and facts and evidence and what not on how this all works. It proves that humans did not evole from animals (it also explains how the whole evolution thing is actually found very wrong) and it also has a very great thing to clearify how the whole "two parents with brown eyes can have a child with blue eyes" thing. Thats they're genes, from their parents. I can better explain it when i can come on later, and i will have a much better response and better evidence (sorry). 

      I still have my apologia book with the facts and evidence and what not and I will be sure to bring that to maybe help explain what point (i think) NinjaTeddyBear is making. Has anyone else here done apologia? There is great information there that could really be used in this. 

      hope this doesnt sound sloppy or harsh, didnt mean to come of rude at all and im sorry about if it seemed like a bad response with poor evidence. Like ive stated im sorta in a rush im suppose to be working on HW right now but Ill be sure to do better later :)

      -Katniss

      Scientifically, the Earth was formed 4.54 billion ​​​​​​​years ago, so I think it definitely existed 2 million years ago. No, you're fine! I'd also be interested in evidence from your part whenever you have time! Anyways, the Homo neanderthalensis/Sapien interbreeding legitimate proof comes from https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/5/100506-science-neanderthals-humans-mated-interbred-dna-gene/ (which I think classifies itself as a pretty reliable source. It also talks a little bit more in-depth about genes that I didn't make that clear). Here's a quote that kind of stuck out to me: "The results showed that Neanderthal DNA is 99.7 percent identical to modern human DNA." 

      I am taking a biology course right now. Hm, sounds interesting! I'll try to get myself a copy online. I might also add that Apologia is a sheer-Christian book, but it'll definitely have some proven facts in there, so I'll try to take a look.

      Not harsh at all, this is pretty interesting :D

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.20.162 wrote:
      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      Yeah, that's true, but there had to have been interbreeding between many animals for humans to evolve. Yes, I get that's not how it works today, but 2,000,000 million years ago... well, we don't know. So no, a new gene cannot be produced from two parents of the same species, but rather from two different types. There are two main types of our ancestors: Homo heidelbergensis and Homo neanderthalensis. There is common debate that we came from either of these, but a new study concurred that there had to have been interbreeding between Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis (gosh these names get confusing) to produce the "modern" human. "Although the narratives of human evolution are often contentious, DNA evidence shows that human evolution should not be seen as a simple linear or branched progression, but a mix of related species. In fact, genomic research has shown that hybridization between substantially diverged lineages is the rule, not the exception, in human evolution."  

      No, you're fine lol

      Don't take this in an offensive way, but every time I hear about evolution, it seems like I'm always hearing a different story. Before it was that we came from apes, now we come from some other creature. 

      NinjaTeddyBear

      No offense at all! I agree; about 5-6 years ago everyone talked about how we evolved from apes/monkeys, but I think that that's the beauty of modern technology. 2014's waaay different from 2019, and with all the new innovation, we can take a closer look at our ancestors better than ever.

        Loading editor
    • MamaGlitterButt wrote:
      OKay, I know that this is totally random. But I just had to say this.

      Evelina, kudos to you for being so respectful of everyone's opinions. I'm not saying that everyone else isn't, because you all are. I just think that you specifically are so kind and willing to listen. Thank you

      Aw thank you! :D

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      173.72.133.129 wrote:
      Yikes Im not on here alot and i actually gtg work but Ill be back on here later to give a better response, but as for now:

      Actually we do know what happened a long time ago. "but 2,000,000 million years ago...."  Okay, i know alot of people believe that the earth existed that long ago, but even some major scientists are discovering that it inst possible for the earth to have existed that long ago. (Also, alot of scientist are becoming very unpopular for agreeing or acknowledging this. Like i said im in a rush i gtg soon but i can provide evidense when i come back). Can you provide any information for the Homo heidelbergensis stuff please? and what evidense you actually have thats got very stable proof for all of this? Not to be sounding harsh! I just want to see why you would believe that. I also have to ask if you've taken biolegy? I highly recomend Apologia Biology for studing facts such as this. In the book it gives you clear scientific proof and facts and evidence and what not on how this all works. It proves that humans did not evole from animals (it also explains how the whole evolution thing is actually found very wrong) and it also has a very great thing to clearify how the whole "two parents with brown eyes can have a child with blue eyes" thing. Thats they're genes, from their parents. I can better explain it when i can come on later, and i will have a much better response and better evidence (sorry). 

      I still have my apologia book with the facts and evidence and what not and I will be sure to bring that to maybe help explain what point (i think) NinjaTeddyBear is making. Has anyone else here done apologia? There is great information there that could really be used in this. 

      hope this doesnt sound sloppy or harsh, didnt mean to come of rude at all and im sorry about if it seemed like a bad response with poor evidence. Like ive stated im sorta in a rush im suppose to be working on HW right now but Ill be sure to do better later :)

      -Katniss

      Scientifically, the Earth was formed 4.54 billion ​​​​​​​years ago, so I think it definitely existed 2 million years ago. No, you're fine! I'd also be interested in evidence from your part whenever you have time! Anyways, the Homo neanderthalensis/Sapien interbreeding legitimate proof comes from https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/5/100506-science-neanderthals-humans-mated-interbred-dna-gene/ (which I think classifies itself as a pretty reliable source. It also talks a little bit more in-depth about genes that I didn't make that clear). Here's a quote that kind of stuck out to me: "The results showed that Neanderthal DNA is 99.7 percent identical to modern human DNA." 

      I am taking a biology course right now. Hm, sounds interesting! I'll try to get myself a copy online. I might also add that Apologia is a sheer-Christian book, but it'll definitely have some proven facts in there, so I'll try to take a look.

      Not harsh at all, this is pretty interesting :D

      I would say that Apologia science is worth it to look into - just because the author is Christian doesn't make his scientific explanations any less true. He's mostly stating facts, facts don't have religion to them or anything like that - I mean they could, but just because it's scientifically explianed by Christian doesn't make it any less true is what I'm saying. 

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • I honestly don't believe in evolution.



      Like, at all.

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.20.162 wrote:
      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      173.72.133.129 wrote:
      Yikes Im not on here alot and i actually gtg work but Ill be back on here later to give a better response, but as for now:

      Actually we do know what happened a long time ago. "but 2,000,000 million years ago...."  Okay, i know alot of people believe that the earth existed that long ago, but even some major scientists are discovering that it inst possible for the earth to have existed that long ago. (Also, alot of scientist are becoming very unpopular for agreeing or acknowledging this. Like i said im in a rush i gtg soon but i can provide evidense when i come back). Can you provide any information for the Homo heidelbergensis stuff please? and what evidense you actually have thats got very stable proof for all of this? Not to be sounding harsh! I just want to see why you would believe that. I also have to ask if you've taken biolegy? I highly recomend Apologia Biology for studing facts such as this. In the book it gives you clear scientific proof and facts and evidence and what not on how this all works. It proves that humans did not evole from animals (it also explains how the whole evolution thing is actually found very wrong) and it also has a very great thing to clearify how the whole "two parents with brown eyes can have a child with blue eyes" thing. Thats they're genes, from their parents. I can better explain it when i can come on later, and i will have a much better response and better evidence (sorry). 

      I still have my apologia book with the facts and evidence and what not and I will be sure to bring that to maybe help explain what point (i think) NinjaTeddyBear is making. Has anyone else here done apologia? There is great information there that could really be used in this. 

      hope this doesnt sound sloppy or harsh, didnt mean to come of rude at all and im sorry about if it seemed like a bad response with poor evidence. Like ive stated im sorta in a rush im suppose to be working on HW right now but Ill be sure to do better later :)

      -Katniss

      Scientifically, the Earth was formed 4.54 billion ​​​​​​​years ago, so I think it definitely existed 2 million years ago. No, you're fine! I'd also be interested in evidence from your part whenever you have time! Anyways, the Homo neanderthalensis/Sapien interbreeding legitimate proof comes from https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/5/100506-science-neanderthals-humans-mated-interbred-dna-gene/ (which I think classifies itself as a pretty reliable source. It also talks a little bit more in-depth about genes that I didn't make that clear). Here's a quote that kind of stuck out to me: "The results showed that Neanderthal DNA is 99.7 percent identical to modern human DNA." 

      I am taking a biology course right now. Hm, sounds interesting! I'll try to get myself a copy online. I might also add that Apologia is a sheer-Christian book, but it'll definitely have some proven facts in there, so I'll try to take a look.

      Not harsh at all, this is pretty interesting :D

      I would say that Apologia science is worth it to look into - just because the author is Christian doesn't make his scientific explanations any less true. He's mostly stating facts, facts don't have religion to them or anything like that - I mean they could, but just because it's scientifically explianed by Christian doesn't make it any less true is what I'm saying. 

      -Black Panther 

      Right, just like it wouldn't matter if the author was muslim or athiest. Sorry if it sounded like I was implying it that way. What I meant was, in terms of evolution, there will bias towards Creationism (not that there's anything wrong with that). If he has proven facts that God created humans, I'd love to listen to them. Actually, I really would like to read the book, but it's $60 on amazon, and there's no pdf version, so if anyone has a link to that, please help xd

        Loading editor
    • All i'm gonna say about evolution is that no matter how God did it, he created the earth and everything in it. Maybe he created the earch in 7 days, or 70,000 years. Maybe their WAS a big bang, one what happened when God willed it to be so. 

        Loading editor
    • That's what I sometimes think about. If God did have a role, maybe he was the one who willed the Big Bang to happen. Or maybe not. I hate not knowing stuff ):

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      72.205.20.162 wrote:
      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      173.72.133.129 wrote:
      Yikes Im not on here alot and i actually gtg work but Ill be back on here later to give a better response, but as for now:

      Actually we do know what happened a long time ago. "but 2,000,000 million years ago...."  Okay, i know alot of people believe that the earth existed that long ago, but even some major scientists are discovering that it inst possible for the earth to have existed that long ago. (Also, alot of scientist are becoming very unpopular for agreeing or acknowledging this. Like i said im in a rush i gtg soon but i can provide evidense when i come back). Can you provide any information for the Homo heidelbergensis stuff please? and what evidense you actually have thats got very stable proof for all of this? Not to be sounding harsh! I just want to see why you would believe that. I also have to ask if you've taken biolegy? I highly recomend Apologia Biology for studing facts such as this. In the book it gives you clear scientific proof and facts and evidence and what not on how this all works. It proves that humans did not evole from animals (it also explains how the whole evolution thing is actually found very wrong) and it also has a very great thing to clearify how the whole "two parents with brown eyes can have a child with blue eyes" thing. Thats they're genes, from their parents. I can better explain it when i can come on later, and i will have a much better response and better evidence (sorry). 

      I still have my apologia book with the facts and evidence and what not and I will be sure to bring that to maybe help explain what point (i think) NinjaTeddyBear is making. Has anyone else here done apologia? There is great information there that could really be used in this. 

      hope this doesnt sound sloppy or harsh, didnt mean to come of rude at all and im sorry about if it seemed like a bad response with poor evidence. Like ive stated im sorta in a rush im suppose to be working on HW right now but Ill be sure to do better later :)

      -Katniss

      Scientifically, the Earth was formed 4.54 billion ​​​​​​​years ago, so I think it definitely existed 2 million years ago. No, you're fine! I'd also be interested in evidence from your part whenever you have time! Anyways, the Homo neanderthalensis/Sapien interbreeding legitimate proof comes from https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/5/100506-science-neanderthals-humans-mated-interbred-dna-gene/ (which I think classifies itself as a pretty reliable source. It also talks a little bit more in-depth about genes that I didn't make that clear). Here's a quote that kind of stuck out to me: "The results showed that Neanderthal DNA is 99.7 percent identical to modern human DNA." 

      I am taking a biology course right now. Hm, sounds interesting! I'll try to get myself a copy online. I might also add that Apologia is a sheer-Christian book, but it'll definitely have some proven facts in there, so I'll try to take a look.

      Not harsh at all, this is pretty interesting :D

      I would say that Apologia science is worth it to look into - just because the author is Christian doesn't make his scientific explanations any less true. He's mostly stating facts, facts don't have religion to them or anything like that - I mean they could, but just because it's scientifically explianed by Christian doesn't make it any less true is what I'm saying. 

      -Black Panther 

      Right, just like it wouldn't matter if the author was muslim or athiest. Sorry if it sounded like I was implying it that way. What I meant was, in terms of evolution, there will bias towards Creationism (not that there's anything wrong with that). If he has proven facts that God created humans, I'd love to listen to them. Actually, I really would like to read the book, but it's $60 on amazon, and there's no pdf version, so if anyone has a link to that, please help xd

      Oof, yeah I don't know about any online versions.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      That's what I sometimes think about. If God did have a role, maybe he was the one who willed the Big Bang to happen. Or maybe not. I hate not knowing stuff ):

      In a way, the big bang seems like way of having creation without God being involved. I mean, how can nothing come from absolutely nothing? But with God it's different, because He's not like us. He's not temporary.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • Hermabeth Foster wrote:
      I honestly don't believe in evolution.


      Like, at all.

      Same here

      -Black Panther 

        Loading editor
    • 72.205.20.162 wrote:
      SoKeepherOfTheLostCities wrote:
      That's what I sometimes think about. If God did have a role, maybe he was the one who willed the Big Bang to happen. Or maybe not. I hate not knowing stuff ):
      In a way, the big bang seems like way of having creation without God being involved. I mean, how can nothing come from absolutely nothing? But with God it's different, because He's not like us. He's not temporary.

      NinjaTeddyBear

      Whoops! Correction! I meant to say how can something come from absolutely nothing.

      NinjaTeddyBear

        Loading editor
    • So I've been reading a bunch of stuff about evolution (that's how I decide to celebrate my holidays xd), and I really like this article. It gets super in-depth into the misconceptions of the Big Bang, and if any of you have time, I'd encourage you to read at least the last 3-4 paragraphs. 

      https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/could-the-big-bang-be-wrong

      This quote stuck out to me, and is pretty much what I believe: "Which brings me to the other key point: The Big Bang is a description of how the universe began, not an explanation of why it began. It does not assume anything about what (or who) made the universe, and it does not assume anything about what (if anything) came before." This is particularly why I believe in the Big Bang. It doesn't say that there isn't a God, or that the universe came from absolutely nothing. It states how it started, not how it was formed. Confusing, but interesting.

        Loading editor