Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-37709254-20200129025309/@comment-2603:9008:200C:7C00:F835:3934:E10D:1BCE-20200131012708

Swearingparrot wrote: MY THOUGHTS:

-Sophie and Fitz both like each other, they are cognates, which means they trust each other more than anyone else, except Edaline and Grady, Keefe has betrayed Sophie before, and Sophie likes Fitz more than Keefe if she had to choose! Sophie and Fitz do both like each other, valid point. But Sophie also friendzoned him at the end of Legacy, soooo…. Also, that doesn’t mean they necessarily trust each other more than anyone else. It just means they trust each other more than any other TELEPATHS. Next, where did Edaline and Grady come from…? Next, Keefe has betrayed Sophie before, each time FOR SOPHIE, and then he regained her trust before becoming a better person and experiencing a little something called CHARACTER GROWTH. He learns from his mistakes. And finally, the part that says “Sophie likes Fitz more than Keefe if she had to choose” is debatable. Even if you exclude the Head VS Heart Theory (which is ONLY a theory, but it’s a highly likely one) that point is still debatable.

-in book one, he was always there for Sophie. He brought her to the her world where she belongs. He looked out for her, and she trusted him so much that he was the one person she thought to reach out to while fading at the four seasons tree. Second, in book 2, Fitz makes a comment at the bonfire how he thinks sophie looks pretty. I know everyone says that they hate fitz for being mean to sophie while Alden's mind was broken. But how would you feel if your father was now brain dead and crazy? and afterwards, he apologized time and time again always trying to make it up to Sophie. Also, in books 3-6, he was sooo protective, caring, sweet, and just totally in love with Sophie.He actually tried to kiss her and tell her that he liked her before being interrupted by Keefe. In book 7, he shared a traumatizing experience with sophie, cared for her, always checking up on her. He also told her that he really liked her, and would go her pace and only date when she was ready for it. In book 8, he was super protective (which I'm not saying was always a good thing) and felt an obligation to Sophie. He also took the unmatchable thing well. I know he didn't exactly say the right things, but he was holding out hope for everything to be okay. and when they broke up, I think they both needed some space. They both had a HARD day, and can you blame Fitz for wanting to know who Sophie's mom is, and wanting to be apart of her life and decisions? And even after the breakup, he went back, saying he missed her, and just being friends was okay with him. He loves her. They trust each other. They're cognates. They've been together since the beginning. I disagree that Fitz was always there for Sophie in Book One. He found her, yeah, and then he kinda dropped her off with Grady and Edaline and just let her find her way. She ended up befriending Dex and Marella early in that book, and THEY were the ones who showed her the ropes at Foxfire. She later meets Keefe, who helps her find her way to the healing center, and later shows her how to deal with detention. As for when she was fading, yeah, I think it makes sense she called for Fitz. He was the one she trusted most (at least in that moment) and he already knew all of her secrets. If she’d called Keefe that early in the series, that’ve been super weird. In Exile, I’m sure Fitz did call Sophie pretty. But how many times has Keefe? Okay, but anyways, your thing about Fitz and his anger in that book is a valid point. Fitz screwed up and Sophie forgave him. But if you apply that logic to Fitz, you also have to apply it to Keefe, meaning they’re both exonerated (which is what I believe them to be). Then, in books 3-6, Fitz WAS sweet and caring. That’s a great point for you Fitzphie shippers. But, as a SoKeefe shipper, I kind of have to point out that so was Keefe. Next, Flashback was a VERY Sophitz book. He did confide in her, and he was super sweet. More scores for Sophitz, great points for y’all. But I also want to point out that despite all of the Sophitz mushiness (I liked it when I used to ship Sophitz, so I don’t blame you, it is pretty cute), Flashback actually has a decent amount of Sokeefe. All the skill lessons, Krakie, etc. That moment outside the troll hive, etc. You get the idea. And now for Legacy. I SUPREMELY disagree with your statement that Fitz “took the unmatchable thing well.” Fitz sounded passive-agressive when he found out (at least in my opinion. Maybe y’all interpreted it as sweet? That was how I read it at first, but when I reread it he sounded super insane) and he gets mad. When they broke up, I agree that they HAD just had a horrible day, but I don’t think that gets to excuse what Fitz did. What DOES excuse it is his apology at the end of Legacy and Sophie’s forgiveness (although she also friendzones him in the same chapter). I completely support Fitz and Sophie being friends, because Fitz is a great character with loads of potential. But I don’t think that they are romantically right for each other, and it’s not just Fitz’s fault. They don’t have the chemistry because Fitz gets mad and Sophie isn’t comfortable sharing things with him because of it. That’s not what a healthy relationship looks like. I also disagree that they’ve “been together since the beginning.” They’ve been together since FLASHBACK, and ended up breaking up.

-I've always shipped Sophie and Fitz together, and as much as I love Keefe, I like Sophitz romantically. I think that they just have such a deep bond, and Fitz really knows everything Sophie has been through, since he was the one who watched her leave her human family. Even though in Legacy Fitz made a ton of mistakes, (although so did Sophie) I think that their breakup actually needed to happen for Fitz to realize the matchmaking doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure he doesn't care anymore because at the end of Legacy he askes her to be his girlfriend again despite her match status. Sophie says just friend for now, but I think it's mainly because she can't handle a big relationship right now because of everything else in her life. Basically, I feel like Sophitz still has a great chance after Legacy, and that their breakup will ultimately make their relationship stronger. This argument is actually a really great one. Every point you brought up is valid and a possibility. Your point about the breakup needing to happen so Fitz can have some kind of closure on the unmatchable thing is a great one; and they do have a chance in Book 9 and on. But I also think we should consider that pretty much the same scenario has happened with Dex, a total friendzone. And nothing has happened to Keefe. So unless if some Sophie-and-Keefe-incident happens and THEN Fitzphie gets back together after it all, I don’t think Sophitz will happen. It also seems like it would be a neat plot if Shannon slowly ruled out each of the boys until only one was left, although Shannon’s not known for her neat plots, so this point I just made isn’t really a good one. It just seems like something a publisher might look for.

-I think Sophitz is meant to be because Fitz was the one who found her. They have these moments. 6.”Fitz pulled her forward, and the warm tingling in her hand shot through her body--like a million feathers swelling underneath her skin, tickling her from the inside out.” 7.”This is…magic?” Fitz laughed – a full body laugh, like it was the funniest thing he’d ever heard [...] “No,” he said when he’d regained control. “Magic is a stupid idea humans came up with to try to explain things they couldn’t understand.” 8.”He grabbed her arms to steady her. "It's ok, Sophie. I'm here to help you. We've been looking for you for twelve years.” 9.”Sophie froze. “My name’s Fitz,” he added, stepping closer still. Fitz? What kind of name was Fitz?” ...this isn’t really reasons, just moments, so I don’t have much to say. If you’re going for the arranged-marriage, A-Whole-New-World theme for your ships, then yeah, Fitzphie’s a great ship since Fitz found her. But I like emotional, underdog ships, so… agree to disagree? Also, I think the moment “Fitz? What kind of a name was Fitz?” is SO BEAUTIFUL.

-They are also cognate buddies. I think I already addressed this one. Y’all are getting repetitive!

-Whenever Sophie is in trouble. He usually comes and saves her. You could say this about any of her friends. And honestly, since the “he” here isn’t specific, can we all agree that Dex is the one who “comes and saves” Sophie the most? Not Fitz, not Keefe, but Dex. Man, sure am glad he made that panic switch! But that doesn’t mean they’re in a romantic relationship.

-Fitz has admitted that he likes Sophie multiple times This quote proves it. "...there's nothing embarrassing about the way he was looking at you, Sophie. That boy is smitten." First off… that’s not a Fitz quote…? ...Edaline was the one who said that…? And if anyone has confessed their love for Sophie the most, it’s Keefe. I mean, what do y’all think he means when he says he’s the “president of the Sophie Foster fan club?”

-Whatever happens next, I'm here with you. You know that right?” Fitz whispered. "I do." The best part was she actually believed him. He’s like always there for her ...not in Legacy. I want to leave it at that, but I know that’s super snarky and immature, so I’m going to add more: if anyone’s “always there for her,” it’s Keefe. And Sophie is there for Keefe as well, sooo….

-Fitz was the first person to introduce Sophie to her true identity as an elf. Fitz had been looking for Sophie since he was six years old, for over 9 years. Yeah, on his Dad’s orders. Arranged marriage alert? Okay, but in all seriousness, that is KIND OF romantic. I just think it’s not enough to topple SoKeefe because he didn’t know Sophie at the time. In Fitz’s words, he did it because sneaking off to the Forbidden Cities was fun. Not because he was looking for a romantic partner. There really wasn’t anything romantic about his search, just some romance when he actually found her. But the whole over-9-years thing? Doesn’t really apply, in my opinion.

-"Just more proof that Fitzphie’s the best,” Fitz told him, with a wink that shouldn’t have made Sophie’s heart flutter. But hearts could be foolish things.” I think all Sokeefe shippers have the same reply to this: “Because Team Foster-Keefe is going to win.”

-“Sophie turned to him, so relieved to see his beautiful eyes staring at her that she didn’t care he’d been eavesdropping.” He has beautiful eyes, Sophie’s favorite color is blue because of his eyes. ...her favorite color is teal. Also… that’s not really a good reason. Since when are looks what matter in a relationship?

-Fitz has always been there for Sophie and they have such a strong connection. Even though Fitz has messed up many times, not one's perfect and he always apologizes for his mistakes. They've also been through so much together. Fitz is the one person who knows what Sophie went through when she had to leave her human family, and he's the only one who really understands what she gained and lost. All great points. Touche. I still think that SoKeefe is better, but this argument is solid fact. No opinions to disagree with, and the facts aren’t exaggerated to a point where they’re untrue. Great argument!

-Fitz does a lot for her: gifts, comfort when she's upset, brings her to the Lost Cities, saves her from Everblaze, figures out where to go to join the BS, etc. Oh, and doesn't run off and "join" the neverseen. (not trying to be rude, just, that really hurt Sophie and her trust in Keefe) Ooh, here’s a great debate. Fitz’s gifts. Are they sweet, or is he trying to basically buy her love? I don’t have an answer, that’s just an opinion kind of thing. I think it’s both, but still. As for comforting her, yeah, Fitz does that a little. But not nearly as much as the rest of her friends (namely Keefe, let’s be honest). The other stuff is kind of chance, but I guess a lot of things are like that. But anyone could have brought her to the Lost Cities, save her from the Everblaze, been the Telepath who Mr. Forkle showed the Round Window in Italy, etc. As for the joining-the-Neverseen Keefe-slam, I notice you didn’t bring up Fitz’s anger that he displayed in Exile and noticeably still hasn’t learned to control, meanwhile Keefe has improved. And I’m sure someone will point out that Keefe told Sophie he wouldn’t go to Loamnore and then he did, but think about it -- if he hadn’t, everyone would be dead right now. THEY DIDN’T HAVE AN EXIT STRATEGY. And I also disagree that what Keefe did hurt Sophie’s trust in Keefe. I think that she forgave him after he apologized (profusely) and it made their relationship stronger. I also believe that Fitz’s anger did the same when she forgave him at the end of Legacy during his apology. BUT she also friendzoned him there.

-Sophie and Fitz know each other because they talk with each other and are close, not just because they're cognates. Agree to disagree.

- I ship Sophie with Fitz because he'd literally crumble without her. Exile showed a lot of his bad side because he was emotionally distraught and his go-to person was also the person he couldn't go to because he was mad at her. However, that's a lot of Sokeefe shippers "AH HAH" for not liking Fitz. He's developed sense then, and he didn't like her that way in that book, either. He started liking her in Lodestar, so that means that that really doesn't count. Anyhow, Sophie has always liked Fitz. I know she and Keefe have a lot of cute moments, but she and Fitz have more chemistry, I guess. It also makes so much more sense for just the build up they have for the two getting together. Sure, there is build up for Keefe, but I'mma be honest. I hate Keefe. He seems whiny and needy and all he seems to do is build up Sophie's stress and worry levels, and no one can deny that. Fitz thinks before he leaps. Keefe doesn't think ever. Honestly, the best thing that guy does is build up comic relief. Fitz is sweet and thinks about Sophie all the time. He's considerate and wants to be there for her, so of course he gets offended when she goes to other people - specifically Keefe - when she has problems. He constantly is trying to make her believe in herself, because he cares about her self esteem. Yeah, he's basically elvin roalty, so the whole matchmaking thing is going to sting a lot for him, but I honestly think they can work that out when they aren't worried about the whole saving-the-intire-universe-from-destruction-and-being-comepletely-made-into-leaders-at-a-really-young-age-like-what's-up-with-that-in-books-what's-even-the-point-of-adults-thing ...I have a lot to say about this one. The first sentence, “I ship Sophie with Fitz because he’d literally crumble without her,” I honestly hope isn’t true. Fitz’s life is literally perfect as far as KoTLC character’s lives go. Great family (minus Alvar), celebrity status, powerful, handsome, well-received, could have practically any girl he wanted. If he “crumbles” without Sophie, after he has everything else… jeez. If that’s not being spoiled, I don’t know what is. Meanwhile Keefe has literally nothing, and don’t say he has his friends because it’s obvious that they’re all drifting away from him. If he doesn’t get Sophie he actually WOULD have nothing. If he crumbles after that, he’s not spoiled. But if Fitz did… well, let’s just say I wouldn’t exactly feel bad (not saying I think he would. I think he’d be able to move on). As for your thoughts on Exile, I agree that us Sokeefe shippers shouldn’t use Fitz’s anger to automatically say the ship is horrible. I actually think that Fitz’s apology and Sophie’s forgiveness only strengthens their relationship, and honestly, I think that’s how Shannon intended for us to interpret it. But that goes two ways. If you’re applying that logic to Fitz and his anger, you gotta apply it to Keefe and his recklessness too. This idea of being fair when judging is a real thing called Due Process (look it up). Usually it’s not applied to books, but in building countries and governments. But let’s be fair here, okay? Both of the boys’ screw-ups only made their relationships with Sophie stronger because she forgave them. As for Fitz “developing” since then… I have to disagree with you there. Fitz’s anger is a HUGE theme throughout the series. We see it in Exile (notoriously), in Lodestar at Keefe, in Flashback at his family and Alvar(seriously though. I bookmarked every mean thing Fitz said or did in Flashback, and there’s about 150 post-it notes in that thing), and of course in Legacy at Sophie and Keefe. I wouldn’t exactly call that “developing.” But he apologized at the end of Legacy, so who knows? Maybe we will get some development. But it certainly hasn’t happened yet. I think the term “chemistry” when it comes to relationships is a really weird thing to say. The only reason I’ve ever used it is because I’ve run out of real proof, so…. As for your rant about Keefe, I strongly disagree. Keefe is never “whiny” or “needy.” He has so many issues and never asks for help with any of it. The only reason we know he even HAS these issues is because Sophie ASKS. I also disagree that Keefe just makes Sophie anxious and worried. If you look through the books and really analyze them (mostly Legacy), the culprit for Sophie’s anxiousness with her friends is actually Fitz. Why else would she successfully, deliberately avoid him for 200 pages? He makes her super stressed. And who does she turn to? KEEFE. Keefe is accepting and makes her feel likes it’s okay for her to be SOPHIE. I’m not sure what you mean when you say “Fitz thinks before he leaps,” so I’ll leave that one alone. As for Keefe never thinking, I disagree SO STRONGLY with this statement… oh my gosh. I can’t even. Keefe has saved them all so many times. Just look at the end of Legacy, when they didn’t have an exit strategy and Keefe showed up and saved them all from certain death. He also exhibits a show of restraint that Fitz clearly doesn’t have. He accepts his best friend’s relationship with his crush because he wants them to be happy. That’s some crazy-sympathetic thinking right there. Plus, you gotta be pretty witty to be as funny as Keefe is. Keefe DOES build up comic relief, which I love. But your sentence, “He's considerate and wants to be there for her, so of course he gets offended when she goes to other people - specifically Keefe - when she has problems” is VERY contradictory. How is getting offended when someone seeks help from other people being considerate? That’s called isolation, a surefire sign of an unhealthy (AKA toxic) relationship. Sophie can hang out with whoever she wants, and Fitz doesn’t respect that, only adding to her worries and stress. How is that considerate and caring? I agree with your point that they COULD work out the whole unmatchable thing in later books, though. Fitz apologized at the end of Legacy and offered to be her boyfriend again, although Sophie turned him down.

This could be a collage essay! Woah

-Bloop